Expansions (Full Version)

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tm1 -> Expansions (4/15/2021 12:39:22 AM)

Just read the article on expansions sounds great for both areas of the Russian campaign.
Though the developers said one or two scenarios for Finland which I wont complain about.
But what would be even better is the entire Finnish front as a campaign 1941 to 1944 solely focused on that.

Always wanted to capture Murmansk with 20th Gebirgsarmee [:D]



Numdydar -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 5:59:29 AM)

I would only be interested in the expansions if they could be added to the base game in order to expand the Grand Campaign we currently have.

I was very disappointed in Torch for WitW as it did not tie into the overall campaign game. So if these expansions are along the same lines as Torch, then I will take a pass.



Kursk1943 -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 6:45:28 AM)

tm1, could you please provide a link to the article about the expansions?



Devast8or -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 7:34:35 AM)

https://www.wargamer.com/gary-grigsbys-war-in-the-east-2/expansions-revealed



Kel -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 7:49:55 AM)

+1
yes please, integrate the finnish war in the campaign game.
Why design such a huge map if it is just for scrolling north on shaded unplayable hexes ?



Kursk1943 -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 8:21:08 AM)

Thank you, Devast8or!



briklebritt -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 8:52:47 AM)

Hoping for some short new scenarios. It is much easier to learn this game when starting with short scenarios. After reading the manual for many hours, playing the 41 campaign is still overwhelming me [:@]



Sardaukar -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 10:20:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kel

+1
yes please, integrate the finnish war in the campaign game.
Why design such a huge map if it is just for scrolling north on shaded unplayable hexes ?


It'd be huge undertaking for very little gain to add Finland as playable into Grand Campaign.

That is because of historical political/military considerations that were different from Germany's ones.

E.g. USA warned Finland that they'd declare war to Finland if we attempted to cut Murmansk railroad connection. Or UK declaration of war when Finns advanced further than 1939 borders etc.

It is modelled reasonably well now, with capture of Leningrad releasing Finnish Corps. But in a sense, it was quite different war from what Germany and allies were having more south.




Kel -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 10:41:48 AM)

I know, but I only play the GC.
I will gladly buy an expansion with 1/ 1 or 2 scenarios 2/ 1 or 2 updated/revised gameplay mechanism 3/ 1 alternate art set (counters, terrain, gui)



Vermin -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 10:43:38 AM)

The Southern Finland map is already populated with all the necessary units in their historical start positions so that area is relatively easy to enable. Some event modding would also be needed and as the Axis it might need a few house rules to prevent exploitation. In principle you could extend northwards but it might be really difficult to replicate the difficulties of supplying units in those areas that limited the size and nature of operations. I'm pretty sure at least one modder is working on Finland (or the southern bit anyway) and I'm sure they'll release it when it's done.



Jeff_Ahl -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 11:53:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kel

+1
yes please, integrate the finnish war in the campaign game.
Why design such a huge map if it is just for scrolling north on shaded unplayable hexes ?


Yeah. +1 here as well...



sven6345789 -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 12:02:41 PM)

quote:

It is modelled reasonably well now, with capture of Leningrad releasing Finnish Corps. But in a sense, it was quite different war from what Germany and allies were having more south.


Correct!

Please no. not integrated into the campaign game. As a stand alone, ok. a winter war 1940 scenario, ok. but regarding the campaign, the solution now as a box is perfect.



Mehring -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 1:43:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would only be interested in the expansions if they could be added to the base game in order to expand the Grand Campaign we currently have.

I was very disappointed in Torch for WitW as it did not tie into the overall campaign game. So if these expansions are along the same lines as Torch, then I will take a pass.

+1



First_Contact_Gamer -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 1:59:27 PM)

Certainly I would have a preference for expansions that expand the overall playability of the map in a grand campaign type scenario. There may be complexities to work through but considering the achievements of this team it certainly seems like a task they have the talent to do.

That said, independent scenarios like mentioned in the article I also look forward to.



smartspick -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 2:52:12 PM)

I'd love expansions where it would allow the entire 1941-1945 war for a specific army group (south,centre, north) etc. It would allow for manageable amount of micro and yet not be overwhelming. Yes, I get that the same army groups from 1941 changed and but the general geographic boundaries would still apply.



First_Contact_Gamer -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 2:59:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smartspick

I'd love expansions where it would allow the entire war for a specific army group (south,centre, north) etc. It would allow for manageable amount of micro and yet not be overwhelming. Yes, I get that the same army groups from 1941 changed and but the general geographic boundaries would still apply.


That is a very interesting idea! I wonder too if it might be more manageable from a development perspective?

This would eliminate the work to "set up" the map, units and conditions as it is already done. I think the hardest part may be trying to trigger the AI to operate remaining forces even though it is all still the same "player/nation".

Unless you're thinking have the map isolated just to where historically that army group operated?



fighterf4u -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 3:04:22 PM)

quote:

Hoping for some short new scenarios. It is much easier to learn this game when starting with short scenarios. After reading the manual for many hours, playing the 41 campaign is still overwhelming me



+1

We need a Fall Blau scenario, a Kursk scenario, Bagration scenario, a road to Smolensk scenario and a 1944 Soviet invasion of Romania + Hungary scenario



Sardaukar -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 3:16:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fighterf4u

quote:

Hoping for some short new scenarios. It is much easier to learn this game when starting with short scenarios. After reading the manual for many hours, playing the 41 campaign is still overwhelming me



+1

We need a Fall Blau scenario, a Kursk scenario, Bagration scenario, a road to Smolensk scenario and a 1944 Soviet invasion of Romania + Hungary scenario


All good suggestions.



smartspick -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 4:18:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: First_Contact_Gamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: smartspick

I'd love expansions where it would allow the entire war for a specific army group (south,centre, north) etc. It would allow for manageable amount of micro and yet not be overwhelming. Yes, I get that the same army groups from 1941 changed and but the general geographic boundaries would still apply.


That is a very interesting idea! I wonder too if it might be more manageable from a development perspective?

This would eliminate the work to "set up" the map, units and conditions as it is already done. I think the hardest part may be trying to trigger the AI to operate remaining forces even though it is all still the same "player/nation".

Unless you're thinking have the map isolated just to where historically that army group operated?



Indeed, this is what I meant. I was not clear. The Map outside of the army group areas would be "greyed out" and the historical units withdrawn or deployed per the historical dates.



Mehring -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 4:20:35 PM)

Any news on War in Europe?



Ekaton -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 4:22:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would only be interested in the expansions if they could be added to the base game in order to expand the Grand Campaign we currently have.

I was very disappointed in Torch for WitW as it did not tie into the overall campaign game. So if these expansions are along the same lines as Torch, then I will take a pass.


Same for me



Vesku80 -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 5:01:34 PM)

quote:

Correct!

Please no. not integrated into the campaign game. As a stand alone, ok. a winter war 1940 scenario, ok. but regarding the campaign, the solution now as a box is perfect.



They could do alternative versions of full campaign, one with Finland as controllable theatre and keep the current TB version as well?



Rexzapper -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 6:00:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vesku80
They could do alternative versions of full campaign, one with Finland as controllable theatre and keep the current TB version as well?


+1



juv95hrn -> RE: Expansions (4/15/2021 8:29:11 PM)

North Africa, WitW 2 and last a DLC that connects them all into the monster game we War in Europe we want and deserve!



StratmanWITX -> RE: Expansions (4/17/2021 10:40:56 AM)

Hi all!
My wishlist:
- integrate the finnish war in the campaign game;
- a winter finnish war (1940) as a single scenario;
- German invasion of Poland (1939) as a single scenario;



Sardaukar -> RE: Expansions (4/17/2021 11:01:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StratmanWITX

Hi all!
My wishlist:
- integrate the finnish war in the campaign game;
- a winter finnish war (1940) as a single scenario;
- German invasion of Poland (1939) as a single scenario;


No, no and no! (For bolded one). It has been seen how unrealistic things become in WitE 1 even with special rules.

Winter War yes.

1941-1944 (1945) as independent scenario (North only) maybe. I'd just say that it'd be boring. Terrain in north was very beneficial to defender and logistic just could not support German advance to Murmansk.



Vermin -> RE: Expansions (4/18/2021 4:19:06 AM)

Yes Yes and Yes[:D] The old WITE1 playable area is very easily added. Given the game limit on use of Finish Forces they will have even less effect than in WITE1 since you wont have more than one corps anywhere SE of Leningrad even if you do capture it. You can add the different map regions to the map or to TBs so you can decide how far north and east you want on-map to go. I doubt the central and northern areas could be integrated on map as supply was very special there. If it could, marvelous. If not, the event system is capable of also reflecting an eventual capture of Murmansk. The consequences of this would actually be trivial in terms of the War in the East. The USA had neither the inclination nor ability to support yet another front. The British would be pleased they no longer had to run the dangerous Murmansk convoys. The Soviets could still get LL through Archangelsk 6-9 months of the year and the remaminder would simply arrive via LL south or LL East. Would the Fins assist in the ways necessary to achieve this - that would depend on a range of factors -some of which can be game events. It is two way street of course and this means the Soviets may occupy Petsamo and overrun most of Finland before eventual Finnish surrender - something that might happen earlier than expected. And it could lead to the Finns (or the Axis player)having to make some difficult decision regarding whether to push for Murmansk if the consequnce for failure is Soviet occupation of Finland... Something for everyone there!



pburton2000 -> RE: Expansions (4/18/2021 6:27:48 AM)

+1 to this ! Integrate the FINNS :)



StratmanWITX -> RE: Expansions (4/18/2021 7:06:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vermin

Yes Yes and Yes[:D] The old WITE1 playable area is very easily added. Given the game limit on use of Finish Forces they will have even less effect than in WITE1 since you wont have more than one corps anywhere SE of Leningrad even if you do capture it. You can add the different map regions to the map or to TBs so you can decide how far north and east you want on-map to go. I doubt the central and northern areas could be integrated on map as supply was very special there. If it could, marvelous. If not, the event system is capable of also reflecting an eventual capture of Murmansk. The consequences of this would actually be trivial in terms of the War in the East. The USA had neither the inclination nor ability to support yet another front. The British would be pleased they no longer had to run the dangerous Murmansk convoys. The Soviets could still get LL through Archangelsk 6-9 months of the year and the remaminder would simply arrive via LL south or LL East. Would the Fins assist in the ways necessary to achieve this - that would depend on a range of factors -some of which can be game events. It is two way street of course and this means the Soviets may occupy Petsamo and overrun most of Finland before eventual Finnish surrender - something that might happen earlier than expected. And it could lead to the Finns (or the Axis player)having to make some difficult decision regarding whether to push for Murmansk if the consequnce for failure is Soviet occupation of Finland... Something for everyone there!

I agree. Here we can find a lot of interesting " what if?" things and this will make WITE2 more interesting and dramatic.
Of course, we can also leave the "leave it as it is" option to those players who are not interested in this expansion.



Sardaukar -> RE: Expansions (4/18/2021 10:21:17 AM)

Well...if you want to integrate Finns to Grand Campaign, you end up into total ahistorical fiction.

There are VERY good reasons why things are now depicted as they are in game.



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