Wind Traps? (Full Version)

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Cavgunner -> Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 12:21:42 AM)

Hi all,

The Shadow Empire manual mentions that it is possible to build Wind Traps on planets that don't have surface water, but still have trace water vapor in the atmosphere (p. 200).

So here is the question: is it actually possible to have a planet with NO surface water but still with water vapor? This combination doesn't seem possible with a Seth-class planet, for example.



Clux -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 1:43:18 AM)

Yes, its possible but somewhat rare, its more common on planets with advanced lifeforms (even if there isn't surface water). But even in that case, I wouldn't use them, since you need to build them in mountains its IP price its extremely high and they provide very little water, you would be better using deep core water extractors (I don't remember the exact name) or mining any underground water deposits



Cavgunner -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 7:11:56 AM)

Thanks for the response. If there is water vapor on the world, will this be reported as a Trace Amount during planet generation?



Maerchen -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 10:21:49 AM)

It is possible.

I won a game on a planet where there were only ice mining and wind traps were meaningful. Conquered some windtraps, and I discovered one. single. hex of permafrost ice that wouldn't melt during summer providing me with unlimited water access. All other ice mines were limited. And that hex was at the north pole, I started near the south pole.

Such resource-limited games are extra fun and another layer of difficulty.



Sieppo -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 2:49:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maerchen

It is possible.

I won a game on a planet where there were only ice mining and wind traps were meaningful. Conquered some windtraps, and I discovered one. single. hex of permafrost ice that wouldn't melt during summer providing me with unlimited water access. All other ice mines were limited. And that hex was at the north pole, I started near the south pole.

Such resource-limited games are extra fun and another layer of difficulty.


Damn sounds great! I've tried to create a planet where water REALLY is a problem. Like Dune etc but have not succeeded.



Maerchen -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 5:36:16 PM)

It was very entertaining.

I uploaded the planetary info here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2462307215

The spin was 17h.



Sieppo -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 5:38:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maerchen

It was very entertaining.

I uploaded the planetary info here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2462307215

The spin was 17h.


What planet type was it? I really need this for my next game [:D]



Maerchen -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 6:19:54 PM)

I think I went with unclassified. It is arid & cold, and a small planet. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2462304722 alien farming was possible.



misterprimus -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/19/2021 10:44:54 PM)

Wind traps are so inefficient, is it even possible to survive economically without hydroponic research at the very minimum to offset your overall farming manpower usage?



zgrssd -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/20/2021 12:31:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

Wind traps are so inefficient, is it even possible to survive economically without hydroponic research at the very minimum to offset your overall farming manpower usage?

You are asking the wrong question. The real question is:
Can I farm at all?

It is a terrible source of water. But it might well be the only source of water early game.
And if you can not farm, you can not field any troops and die.



misterprimus -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/21/2021 1:44:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

Wind traps are so inefficient, is it even possible to survive economically without hydroponic research at the very minimum to offset your overall farming manpower usage?

You are asking the wrong question. The real question is:
Can I farm at all?

It is a terrible source of water. But it might well be the only source of water early game.
And if you can not farm, you can not field any troops and die.

I was in a similar situation one time. Only reason I had food (and no water) was because my level 3 farms just so happened to be private and private farms are magical farms that need no water.



mek42 -> RE: Wind Traps? (4/30/2021 3:13:42 AM)

I love it when xeno-farms require less water.

I too enjoy games where water is a strategic resource worth fighting for.



Cavgunner -> RE: Wind Traps? (5/2/2021 4:34:28 AM)

I just want to chime in here again and say that I spent the better part of an hour trying to gen a planet with no bodies of water whatsoever, but I couldn't arrive at a combo that had BOTH a truly waterless surface (no ice either) AND atmospheric vapor. One of the posters above said that this was possible but I'm beginning to doubt it. Any further thoughts from anyone on this?

The point of this exercise is because in most games water is too easy to get in the early game, and I explicitly don't want that.



zgrssd -> RE: Wind Traps? (5/2/2021 6:15:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cavgunner

I just want to chime in here again and say that I spent the better part of an hour trying to gen a planet with no bodies of water whatsoever, but I couldn't arrive at a combo that had BOTH a truly waterless surface (no ice either) AND atmospheric vapor. One of the posters above said that this was possible but I'm beginning to doubt it. Any further thoughts from anyone on this?

The point of this exercise is because in most games water is too easy to get in the early game, and I explicitly don't want that.

It is not nessesary to have no surface water. Just so little, that you propably start in a region without relevant water income.

Also keep in mind that the planet percentages only count actuall oceans - they completely ignore rivers and freshwater lakes. So it is possible there was still some surface water on that planet.



Cavgunner -> RE: Wind Traps? (5/2/2021 6:19:29 AM)

To reiterate, yes it is necessary, because that is what I'm trying to achieve.



zgrssd -> RE: Wind Traps? (5/2/2021 12:03:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cavgunner

To reiterate, yes it is necessary, because that is what I'm trying to achieve.

Then you are intentionally trying to archieve the impossible, rather then the next feasible thing.
Going out of your way to fail, will not proove anything.
Just pointing that out, so you stop wasting time. [:)]



Cavgunner -> RE: Wind Traps? (5/4/2021 5:58:26 PM)

As I noted above, the game manual indicated that a planet with zero surface water but still having atmospheric vapor was possible. I would like to attempt such a scenario because it's a challenge and because it would require the utilization of wind traps. If the game mechanics currently don't allow this that's fine, but that doesn't mean I'm wasting my time or failing intentionally.

(Edited because I may have let my temper get away from me, however, I hope I've made my logic perfectly clear- I want the challenge of having to rely on Wind Traps.)



BlueTemplar -> RE: Wind Traps? (5/14/2021 9:06:56 PM)

My very first game, on Unclassified planet type, I ended up with a zero surface water + some atmospheric vapor.
I still didn't need to make any Wind Traps, because there were plentiful subterranean Ice deposits...



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