Naval Engagement Range (Full Version)

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JorMallester -> Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 1:23:44 AM)

Hi All!

Quick quote from page 92 of the manual...

''Enemy fleets need to be within a 5 hex range of the destination. Air units need to be within a 10 hex range, or less
if their range is less, of the destination hex.''

This quote is in regard to naval interception. I am just looking for clarification from Alvaro or anybody else that the hex ranges mentioned above are indeed accurate.

I only say this because I noticed some little bits here and there have not been updated in the manual and are still quoting game rules from Warplan Europe. I have never played that game unfortunately (more personal interest in the Pacific Theater), so I am not entirely sure if these hex ranges are even relevant to that game. Thank you for your time nonetheless!



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 4:17:25 AM)

It is 5 and 10.

The port interdiction is 2 and 4.



JorMallester -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 4:19:02 AM)

Much obliged!



willgamer -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 3:37:15 PM)

Can the intercepting force attack at range 4 or 5 even if the range of the carrier planes is only 3? [&:]



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 6:30:10 PM)

5 hex because the intercept area is a patrol area where those fleets are moving around in.



LeLiquid -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 9:10:27 PM)

Does the air unit has to be with naval target in addition to support mode ? And if this is the case, an air unit in support mode, naval targeting, can make ground support on the same turn ?



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/3/2021 11:27:32 PM)

All air units ground support on the enemy turn regardless of the air mission as long as they are in support mode

Air naval interception only happens if you are in support mode AND naval air mission.

This was a recent change in WPE that passed to WPP



willgamer -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/4/2021 4:12:54 PM)

This is an example of the need for someone, not necessarily Alvaro, to write an "Obscure, but Critical Things You Need to Know" document.

As Alvaro has repeatedly said that this game is very different to other sim style wargames and manages many things 'under the covers'. So well, in fact, that if you have the basic mechanics, you can employ historically successful strategies.

But that's also the rub... the basic mechanics are difficult to know in sufficient detail, as per above (and many other threads in this forum).

Alvaro, and some of our playtester/experts, simply know the game too well to put themselves in the shoes of the average player; hence the need for a guide.

A straight forward chart or table (like naval permissions) is not sufficient when the WHY/BACKGROUND is needed to explain why you can't do things the way you always have for the last 2 decades.

This applies to so many things: invasion odds that don't include bombardment (and ships that can't explicitly bombard), range 3 air groups that can react a range 5, carrier groups that can't do surface engagements, (long list.............., etc...).

We need volunteers! [&o]



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/4/2021 4:46:43 PM)

I'll see what I can do with a video. Some players instantly get it. Others do not.

Although this is a higher complexity game than all the others except GG games which are way above this in complexity.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/4/2021 5:46:38 PM)

AlVARO, It is not just the complexity, it is that nothing is intuitive. Too many combinations of conflicting rules and there are so many of your rules in any given situation that no planning is possible.

At this point the game is unplayable for me. I wish I'd never heard of it. I made the spreadsheet that other fellow was suggested you make with all of the possible combinations that you have programmed into this nightmare and it is unworkable. You made this thing so you are too close to it to be objective. Most people will just move their units and hope for the best because you made it ridiculously complicated and it doesn't add anything to the game. Just makes it so that every move you make all you can do is cross your fingers because you have no idea what move you should have made if you could decipher the contradictory rules that come in to play every time you move a unit.

Do what you want, so far you have. I'm dumping this fiasco and waiting for Task Force Admiral and hope they don't screw that one up too much.



stjeand -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/4/2021 6:26:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

AlVARO, It is not just the complexity, it is that nothing is intuitive. Too many combinations of conflicting rules and there are so many of your rules in any given situation that no planning is possible.

At this point the game is unplayable for me. I wish I'd never heard of it. I made the spreadsheet that other fellow was suggested you make with all of the possible combinations that you have programmed into this nightmare and it is unworkable. You made this thing so you are too close to it to be objective. Most people will just move their units and hope for the best because you made it ridiculously complicated and it doesn't add anything to the game. Just makes it so that every move you make all you can do is cross your fingers because you have no idea what move you should have made if you could decipher the contradictory rules that come in to play every time you move a unit.

Do what you want, so far you have. I'm dumping this fiasco and waiting for Task Force Admiral and hope they don't screw that one up too much.


Sad to see you go...I thought we could get this working for you pretty easily playing.

I think you spent way to much time trying to know every single rule to the full extent and that is a huge mistake. I have been playing for months and don't know all the rule nor do I need to nor do I care too.
It is a game...and I like to learn every single game.

It must be how brains work...

I forget things often and it costs me but that is what happens in war. This is one of the easier games I have played.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Naval Engagement Range (5/5/2021 4:26:57 PM)

I think MemoryLeak is trying to play the game in absolute numbers like chess or dominoes when the game isn't designed that way on purpose. The combat calculations under the hood are meant to remove min-maxxing and exactness to give that feel of how a real war should be played out through logistics, strategic consideration, and operational actions.

I get it. Sometimes things don't stick.

I am an expert poker player. It is a complex game under the hood with a lot of mathematics using game theory and psychology in live play.

But I can't wrap my head around the stock market lol. The math in stock analysis is way simpler than poker but you have so many variables, conditions of money supply, inflation, spending, mood, that impact resources which makes little sense to me. Even though technically it is a simpler system than poker. The math is easy. I can't get it nearly as well as I get poker.

The thing is a game like this has never been done so to be the first has a lot of hurdles, exploits, and situations I couldn't see. Already WarPlan 2 will have things done differently to make the game easier for people especially in the naval game. Sorry it has been frustrating for you.




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