Abandoned Project: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Mods and Scenarios



Message

BeirutDude -> Abandoned Project: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (5/9/2021 8:06:36 PM)

Think this one is ready for Playtest. It is a force degradation mission so points are awarded for destroying Ukrainian assets and lost for loosing Russian forces (the Russian Air force is having some numbers issues so loosing aircraft hurts in the long run). So if that is not your thing, thanks for your consideration...

Ukraine, 2021
Al "Beirutdude" Sandrik
The Time Is: 1 June, 2021, 09:00 Zulu/12:00 Kiev Time
Playable as Russia Only
2 Days, 6 Hours Duration
Built under C:MO v1.02 – Build 1147.23
Database: DB3000 v488

Background: In March of 2021 Russian forces began to build up along the Ukrainian-Russian Border and in the Crimea. In late April Russian President Putin announced the Spring exercises were over and Russian forces were pulling back from the border areas, but it was just a Maskirovka. In fact, “Little Green Men” were infiltrated into the Donbass and Luhansk Oblasts and key Russian forces never returned to barracks. The plan was to seize the Ukraine up to the Dnieper River in a rapid assault but first, taking a page out of the Desert Storm air campaign, two days would be allotted to the destruction of the Ukrainian Navy, Air Force and Integrated Air Defense System (IADS) by the Russian Air Force and Navy.

Mission: Your mission is to destroy the Ukrainian ability to resist a ground invasion by destroying their Air and Sea defenses.

Notes:
You have six hours to ready your fighter/multirole/attack aircraft and attack helicopters. Bombers, with 20-hour ready times, I have loaded with likely load outs (including nukes).

I do not set the WRA for the human player. What I think it should be set to you might not. Thus, it is up to you to tweak it as you see fit. The WRA settings for the A/I have been adjusted.

Action should begin around 20-21:00 local time. Sunset in Donetsk is 20:20 local time 17:20 UTC.

NATO will not intervene in this scenario; the Ukraine is on its own.

You may use nukes at your discretion. In my personal opinion they are not necessary, but they are available. If nukes are your thing, have fun.

Scoring: 0 points = Disaster and 12,000 a Triumph.

Built under C:MO v1.02 Build 1147.23 Database: DB3000 v488
.INI and Delta Files are both provided for deep rebuilds.
Al "BeirutDude" Sandrik (ex-Beachinnole)
Al.Sandrik@gmail.com



BDukes -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/9/2021 8:53:22 PM)

Barely started but holy cow this is fun. Good one BeirutDave!

Mike



Kushan04 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 12:23:16 AM)

Can't wait to try this it out.

As an FYI you only need to include the delta file for deep rebuilds, its the only one that gets referenced when updating. The normal ini file is used only as a scenario designer resource.



Coiler12 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 5:35:20 PM)

Looks great and I love how you give the player a 6 hour window to set loadouts as they wish.



BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 5:39:31 PM)

I hope everyone enjoys!!!!

Please any suggestions would be deeply appreciated. As this one is big I forgot some of what I did in the beginning! [:D]



BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 5:59:39 PM)

quote:

The normal ini file is used only as a scenario designer resource.


Thanks! I always wondered what it was for and just included it just in case it was useful for someone.

As a Designer, what should I be using it for? I always rebuild with the Delta. Near as I can tell the .INI is the raw units without aircraft/ship/base magazine load outs. Am I right?



Coiler12 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 6:14:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Please any suggestions would be deeply appreciated. As this one is big I forgot some of what I did in the beginning! [:D]


There's a lot of bunkers around some of the single unit airfields that don't seem to serve any current purpose.



Kushan04 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 6:51:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
As a Designer, what should I be using it for? I always rebuild with the Delta. Near as I can tell the .INI is the raw units without aircraft/ship/base magazine load outs. Am I right?


Its only contains a list of unit names and their GUIDs. The only thing I use it for is to get GUIDs of multiple units without having to copy and paste them individually.



BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 7:41:49 PM)

quote:

There's a lot of bunkers around some of the single unit airfields that don't seem to serve any current purpose.


So those bunkers have/had loadouts in them (if empty it is likely you loaded them on the aircraft).

I did airfield/bunkers two ways.

1. 6x or 12x of an aircraft type's loadouts. So 6 of all munitions load outs for an Su-27S.
2. Or in some cases I did by weapons type, say 24 Adder AA missiles in a bunker.

Then I built the airfield around a single unit airfield and the bunkers. To spread them out I try to limit the number in each bunker.

That way to load out the bunkers for a type of aircraft I only had to load out the bunkers once, then copy them for the next airfield with a similar type.

Oh yeah and you might want to look in those magazines/bunkers, you might find a little surprise at those "emergency/auxiliary" fields. [:D] [8D] [:)]



BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 7:45:42 PM)

quote:

The only thing I use it for is to get GUIDs of multiple units without having to copy and paste them individually.


Roger that! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!



BDukes -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/10/2021 11:11:41 PM)

I mucked up by arming my bomber force with anti-shipping missiles instead of land-strike. Starting over but I'm alright with it. Really fun.

Anybody go nuke yet?

Mike




Gunner98 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 2:21:53 AM)

Intense.

I also got caught with a bunch of AC loaded with AS-16 which are Anti-Ship only.

I've got a few points I'll PM to you but this is a good scrap, the odds are not overwhelming, at least not in the first little while.

Cheers

- No nukes yet but almost.... by accident[sm=00000030.gif]



edsw -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 11:40:24 AM)

I looked at your script, there are nuances about the Sea of ​​Azov and the Air Force. So, let's begin:
1. Caspian flotilla transferred
pr. 2182.0, 21630 (just Buyan, without m) and pr1204. 1166 and Buyan did not seem to be transferred.
2. The Black Sea Fleet, it has only 1 submarine of 877 project and that one is under repair. On the Black Sea, Russia has 6 submarines of Project 636 (for some reason, many authors of scripts about the Black Sea love exactly 877).
3. In Crimea, there is a su-24 mp ... All of Russia has only 1-su-24 mp and it does not fly (also in many scenarios they like to shove him). If you want electronic warfare, it is better to supply ground stations (Krasukha 2/4, Moscow, Avtobaza) or Su-34 with a SAP-14 container.
4. Mig-29s remained in Russia only in Armenia, and possibly Milerovo (everything is correct here). In Kursk there are about 24 Su-30SM and 28 Mig-29SMT + 6 Mig-29UBT



BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 1:53:59 PM)

Thanks for the feedback...

quote:

ORIGINAL: edsw

I looked at your script, there are nuances about the Sea of ​​Azov and the Air Force. So, let's begin:
1. Caspian flotilla transferred
pr. 2182.0, 21630 (just Buyan, without m) and pr1204. 1166 and Buyan did not seem to be transferred.


Thank. I really wanted to add the Gephards to the scenario. So while they may not be deployed, wanted to mix the database up a bit.

quote:

2. The Black Sea Fleet, it has only 1 submarine of 877 project and that one is under repair. On the Black Sea, Russia has 6 submarines of Project 636 (for some reason, many authors of scripts about the Black Sea love exactly 877).


The Kilos are the correct type with the six homeported 636's in the eastern Black Sea Port. I didn't know the 877 was under repair. Good info, might take it out.

quote:

3. In Crimea, there is a su-24 mp ... All of Russia has only 1-su-24 mp and it does not fly (also in many scenarios they like to shove him). If you want electronic warfare, it is better to supply ground stations (Krasukha 2/4, Moscow, Avtobaza) or Su-34 with a SAP-14 container.


Thanks. Will look at the EW, the database I used was vary ambiguous on types and numbers of EW aircraft.

4. Mig-29s remained in Russia only in Armenia, and possibly Milerovo (everything is correct here). In Kursk there are about 24 Su-30SM and 28 Mig-29SMT + 6 Mig-29UBT

Again Thanks! Will look at this.





BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 1:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Intense.

I also got caught with a bunch of AC loaded with AS-16 which are Anti-Ship only.

I've got a few points I'll PM to you but this is a good scrap, the odds are not overwhelming, at least not in the first little while.

Cheers

- No nukes yet but almost.... by accident[sm=00000030.gif]


Gunner, tried to PM you but your message box is full. Might want to clear some of it out! [:D] [8D]



edsw -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 4:40:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

Thanks for the feedback...

quote:

ORIGINAL: edsw

I looked at your script, there are nuances about the Sea of ​​Azov and the Air Force. So, let's begin:
1. Caspian flotilla transferred
pr. 2182.0, 21630 (just Buyan, without m) and pr1204. 1166 and Buyan did not seem to be transferred.


Thank. I really wanted to add the Gephards to the scenario. So while they may not be deployed, wanted to mix the database up a bit.

quote:

2. The Black Sea Fleet, it has only 1 submarine of 877 project and that one is under repair. On the Black Sea, Russia has 6 submarines of Project 636 (for some reason, many authors of scripts about the Black Sea love exactly 877).


The Kilos are the correct type with the six homeported 636's in the eastern Black Sea Port. I didn't know the 877 was under repair. Good info, might take it out.

quote:

3. In Crimea, there is a su-24 mp ... All of Russia has only 1-su-24 mp and it does not fly (also in many scenarios they like to shove him). If you want electronic warfare, it is better to supply ground stations (Krasukha 2/4, Moscow, Avtobaza) or Su-34 with a SAP-14 container.


Thanks. Will look at the EW, the database I used was vary ambiguous on types and numbers of EW aircraft.

4. Mig-29s remained in Russia only in Armenia, and possibly Milerovo (everything is correct here). In Kursk there are about 24 Su-30SM and 28 Mig-29SMT + 6 Mig-29UBT

Again Thanks! Will look at this.




quote:

Thank. I really wanted to add the Gephards to the scenario. So while they may not be deployed, wanted to mix the database up a bit.

I do not say whether they threw them or not)). But in my opinion they are illogical there. I can deliver calibers to any targets and from the Caspian Sea, why send such ships to the basics? Artelery and small landing ships were transferred there (most likely there was a plan for a tactical landing in Mariupol, since the Ukrainian troops were quite strengthened)



BDukes -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 7:05:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Intense.

I also got caught with a bunch of AC loaded with AS-16 which are Anti-Ship only.

I've got a few points I'll PM to you but this is a good scrap, the odds are not overwhelming, at least not in the first little while.

Cheers

- No nukes yet but almost.... by accident[sm=00000030.gif]


[:D] Well the good news is the AS-16 kerfuffle wasn't me.

I think I was too broad in my initial approach anyways. Feel like I should have blown a hole through to the airfields instead of plinking radar sites willy nilly.

Mike



BDukes -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/11/2021 7:27:09 PM)

Okay OOB asks

Add 636.3 Kilo's as they have land-attack Kalibers. These have been in the Med and fired land attack cruise missiles into Syria (pretty sure). They've also entered the Black Sea but not permanent like Alrosa etc.

Would be nice if the Buyans had land-attack Kalibre's as well.

Ukrainian's could use some coastal artillery and even Skif SSM positions. Give the Russian ships something to think about when bombarding.

I'm sure the basic Mig-29 is rare in Russian AF these days. Just the modernized variants.

If possible add the helo jammers too. Russian Army uses them a lot and all the gunships in this scenario will need those.

Thanks!

Mike




Gunner98 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/12/2021 10:49:45 AM)

quote:

Might want to clear some of it out!


will do...[sm=innocent0009.gif]

Getting to around midnight on day 1. Took some dopy losses - a couple MiG-29s ran out of fuel in the landing pattern, an Su-30 sauntered over an SA-10 heading to a Midas...

Beside that going well... there are a lot of SA-10s hanging around, sheesh.



Coiler12 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/13/2021 12:13:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Getting to around midnight on day 1. Took some dopy losses - a couple MiG-29s ran out of fuel in the landing pattern,


Do you think, even if it's not their home base, that means the famously short-legged Fulcrums should be moved to a closer field like Rostov or Taganrog (which are both currently empty)?



Gunner98 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/13/2021 12:39:31 PM)

quote:

moved to a closer field like Rostov or Taganrog


Yes. I am not using the forward bases as much as I should be. I've now pushed the IADS back to about the Dnieper with the exception of a few lurking SA-10s out of radars and short on missiles - but still a PITA. So my Migs really need to move.

Am consolidating my CAPS after defeating 2 counter attacks. Leaving the A2A duty to the older Su-27s who cannot use AS-14s and taking it down from 7 CAP zones to 4. The other problem with the older Mig-29s is that they do not have PGMs or standoff so they are relegated to sweep up - the Su-25s are better at that too.

Bloody SA-11s with their optical tracking are almost as big of a problem as the SA-10s - Oh and I think I've just found something even nastier. Need a closer look though...

Peeling the onion...



Gunner98 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/14/2021 1:56:41 AM)

Holly Flack Trap Batman!!!!

Not 2, not 3, not even 4 but 5x SA-10/12! And just as your maneuvering like mad to get out of the ambush you blunder into, you drive over more of those bloody SA-11s!

Nasty....



Gunner98 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/15/2021 3:43:15 AM)

OK Done

21 hrs left to go but nothing left to fight. Score 43700 for the good guys.

Losses

SIDE: Russia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
9x Ka-52 Hokum B [Alligator]
2x Mi-8MT Hip H
7x MiG-29S Fulcrum C
4x MiG-29SMT Fulcrum C
7x Su-24M Fencer D
5x Su-25SM Frogfoot A
1x Su-27SM/SM3 Flanker B
1x Su-27SM/SM3 Flanker B
2x Su-30M2 Flanker G
2x Su-30SM Flanker G
1x Su-34 Fullback

More tomorrow when my eyes aren't so bleary



Gunner98 -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/15/2021 11:27:26 AM)

OK that was some heavy duty SEAD work. Overall I liked it, good depth, challenging mix of units to deal with and interesting geography. A couple further suggestions.

-Reconnaissance assets. One of the mainstays of CW Soviet ORBATS were reconnaissance units, and that is missing here. I found I was doing a lot of 'recce by death' - i.e. driving forward until you get shot at then back off and stonk them. That's how I took most of the losses. Recon UAV/UCAV, satellites, Spetsnaz etc would help here

-Too much navy, not enough targets. Once the shooting started it took about 7 or 8 minutes of gameplay to eliminate Ukrainian naval units and dominate the sea. It was mentioned above that Land Attack CMs would be helpful and I agree but that will add about 10 minutes of interest to the naval side of things. To increase the tension at sea, a mix of NATO and Civilian ships would help, an SSM Bty or two to shoot back, fewer ships etc.

-I didn't go nuke, and I doubt the nuke CMs would have any more luck getting through the wall of SAMs than the conventional ones did - at least until things were whittled down a bit. Once that happens you don't need to go nuke. If you want to play that option than perhaps you need to force the players hand with some sort of casualty count, the more losses you take the more likely Vlad-the-Emperor will push the button and direct the player to use them.

-After a while, things became fairly routine. Everything that couldn't shoot AS-17/18 was parked and left for cleanup, the SA-14 was OK for that but way too short ranged to put in the first or even second strike. The older Mig-29s were parked a lot, only used them to plaster bypassed bases. In the end I had three main strike missions with assigned groups and just added depth targets as the lead ones got killed. Almost like a rolling barrage of Kazoos. Once the bombers started coming on line for their second strike it was all over as long as you had Kryptons ready to help them into the targets. Perhaps some different victory objectives - like hitting an underground C-3 bunker - the Russians only have 1 weapon for that (KaB-1500) so it will take planning.

-There were a lot of helicopters but not a lot that they could do. I think you may want to add more targets that are helicopter specific and reduce the numbers substantially. The Su-25s as well, better range and faster but the same weapons. They really aren't meant for this kind of fight.

-There was too much time. If you reduce it by 24 hrs there is still time to wipe out most of the targets.

Thanks for building this one. It is an interesting David vs Goliath, with the player being Goliath.




BeirutDude -> RE: Play Test: Ukraine, 2021 - posted 05-09-2021 (5/17/2021 11:42:16 AM)

THANKS GUYS!

Man there is a lot of feedback to unpack on this one. I need to create a spreadsheet to collate it all and consider. I might PM some of you for some clarification on things you brought up.

Probably be a week or two before an update.

THANKS!!!



BeirutDude -> RE: PT: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (6/11/2021 10:42:27 PM)

So I'm not ignoring everyone's great suggestions but I had a health situation and am having difficultly concentrating on a scenario this large and all the detailed changes that were suggested. Bottom line is I might have had a mini-stoke and I think I'm going to try to get back into design with some small, very simple scenarios. Doc says to do them, it's like doing a puzzle to get the brain back in gear, but this one is a bit much for that right now.

So that leaves a a few questions...

1. Should I submit it as is and then come back to it later for a Version 2?

2. Does someone have a desire to take it over and share credit?

3. just let it lie until later?



BDukes -> RE: PT: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (6/12/2021 6:02:27 PM)

Submit and come back when you feel like it.

Hoping the best for your health BD.

Mike



KnightHawk75 -> RE: PT: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (6/13/2021 5:32:52 PM)

Just let it be or submit and come back for a version 2, take care of yourself first, the games can wait, best wishes.



HalfLifeExpert -> RE: PT: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (6/13/2021 5:58:00 PM)

Take care of yourself first and foremost. If the doctor says it's good for you brain to work on scenarios, then take your time before posting. Work on as many as you like, then surprise us later with a cluster.




BeirutDude -> RE: PT: Ukraine, 2021 - Version 05-09-2021 (6/16/2021 10:08:21 PM)

I seem to recall there were some major minefield issues. So I'll hold it and come back to it. If someone feels like they want to tweak it, just drop me a PM or post. Maybe in a little bit, I'll get back to this one.



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.9530029