[WAD] Supply not lost (Full Version)

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Nix77 -> [WAD] Supply not lost (5/10/2021 11:10:41 AM)

I have noticed that units that get replacements, seem to get quite low number of freight lost, or even zero in some cases. Is this working as intended?

I understood from the manual that supplies, fuel, ammo and replacements all arrive to the unit as generic freight, that should be getting lost the further it's being transported from, no matter what the freight "contains".

It's difficult to calculate exactly, but to me it seems that all freight that arrives as replacements is not susceptible to freight loss, no matter what distance the freight travels. See example, the save is from the same Carlkay's AAR that I used for my other supply bug ticket. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4993075 IIRC, but this should be seen in all games.

In the picture, the unit probably got the last 9 tons of replacements from Gorki, thus the lower loss percentage (28%).


[image]local://upfiles/55175/E4C4A18E465A42939BF543710FBC8B6D.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Supply not lost (5/10/2021 11:21:49 AM)

the relationship of replacements to other freight is one of the hidden aspects to the system (or at least I've never got beyond observation and a vague feel).

2 bits I know/strongly suspect. Replacements are last in the supply distribution routines so if you have maxed out your network or depots you won't get much in terms of replacements.

This is why, come October, the German manpower pool increases, all those disrupted/damaged elements that are treated as long term wounded/needing serious repair can't get back to their actual combat units.

I think that men lost in the replacement sequence don't show up, the unit will show the net change +/- but say a 'damanged' man who has recovered either reaches the unit or doesn't. So yes, I think in this sense there is no immediate attrition but there may well be attrition in the wider logistics system



Nix77 -> RE: Supply not lost (5/10/2021 12:07:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

the relationship of replacements to other freight is one of the hidden aspects to the system (or at least I've never got beyond observation and a vague feel).

2 bits I know/strongly suspect. Replacements are last in the supply distribution routines so if you have maxed out your network or depots you won't get much in terms of replacements.

This is why, come October, the German manpower pool increases, all those disrupted/damaged elements that are treated as long term wounded/needing serious repair can't get back to their actual combat units.

I think that men lost in the replacement sequence don't show up, the unit will show the net change +/- but say a 'damanged' man who has recovered either reaches the unit or doesn't. So yes, I think in this sense there is no immediate attrition but there may well be attrition in the wider logistics system


I'm just worried if the depot distance is forgotten from the equation when replacements are sent. See for example 7th Panzer Division the save, it receives around the same number of replacement freight from both Vitebsk (1 hex away) and Kraslava (14 hexes away).

The manual suggests that ground elements are actually freight until they reach the unit, so shouldn't they be regarded as freight, susceptible to being lost on the way?

quote:

25.3. FREIGHT
Freight represents the generic capability to transport material through the supply grid. As such, freight is not converted to the actual material, whether as fuel, supplies, ammunition, vehicles or ground elements, until it is drawn upon by the end user. At that stage, the actual items needed are drawn from the production pools, if they are present.

For example, when one ton of freight is moved to a unit that is getting supplies, it is converted into one ton of supplies and at the same time one ton of supplies is consumed from the general supply pool (25.2). A shortage of needed material in a pool or a shortage of freight in a player’s depots will have the same result of not being able to meet a unit’s supply and replacement needs.


quote:

Ground unit losses, whether combat or non-combat related, while expressed in terms of men, guns and AFV’s, are actually based on destroyed and damaged ground elements



Joel Billings -> RE: Supply not lost (5/11/2021 12:24:31 AM)

I will add this to the list to discuss with Gary as I don't know if he is treating replacements differently than fuel/supply/ammo.



Joel Billings -> RE: Supply not lost (5/12/2021 10:04:43 PM)

Gary thinks it is WAD that replacements do not get lost in the same way as supplies/ammo/fuel can be lost.

There is another kind of lost that can happen, and that's when freight going to a depot is interdicted, or freight at a depot is bombed. The system records the damage at the depot and later converts it into actual items lost when units try to secure specific goods. Without a deeper dive, we don't know offhand whether these losses are listed in the unit detail screen and/or in the logistics log table of freight lost by command.



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