Manual & Stacking Limitations (Full Version)

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chrisdrost -> Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/10/2021 9:27:58 PM)

I own a lot of games but Warplan Pacific has the worst manual I have ever seen. The inability to not have multiple infantry units in a hex is frustrating. Only game I own that has this limitation. Is it a Unity engine limitation or a designer decision? It's why a passed on Warplan Europe. Between the manual and stacking limitation I loosing interest.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/10/2021 10:27:31 PM)

#1 Creating an A.I. to work with stacking in a game of this scale is a massive and complex undertaking that requires a smaller start with a baseline A.I. to test out all its functions. To put is simply... You have to put Alan Shepard Jr. in orbit before you send Neil Armstrong to the moon. WarPlan 2 will be more to your liking perhaps as the way units are handled will be improved.

#2 Stacking is abstract. You can detach divisions from corps or spit armies. This reduces the amount of clicking players have to do so a game of this massive of scale is playable. You can also set units in garrison mode or buy them at lower techs to mimic garrison units at an inexpensive expense. Then later upgrade them.

Sorry you don't like WarPlan games, not everyone will. Try Strategic Command 3. I know the owner and it is a two man team that does a great job. I play it I'm my spare time. It's a lower complexity game but doesn't have any form of stacking. The rules manual is lovely and more love was given to it than mine.

Perhaps some John Tiller games. I think they allow stacking. They also have more experience and resources than my 1 man team for game development.

War in the East also allows stacking and has a large team with a well written manual.




chrisdrost -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 12:43:29 AM)

Thank you for your reply. I'm just frustrated learning the mechanics. I'm sure I will like it once I get comfortable with the game.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 1:41:55 AM)

It is very different than other games I am trying to break the mold.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 2:13:25 AM)

Most games are one click, one action, one move, one attack. They follow what most other games do. It is easier to code, and familiar with players.

I did things different to bring the board game to the screen. Some other games in the past tried and didn't do so well. So WarPlan changes how actions are done and how they operate. Some love it immediately, a few hate it, others struggle with it. But once you understand how it plays and get into the deep, DEEP, strategy of logistics and planning you will realize what it is about. There is no systematic A, B, C path to victory. Like in Warcraft III build in ABC order. It is more abstract.

So ask all the questions you like. A fair amount of tutorial videos.



LarryP -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 7:16:48 PM)

Alvaro: I admire you for giving ideas for several other games. It's got to be hard reading when someone does not like your game so much. Good job!

I like unit stacking, and sometimes it's a nice break to not play that way. I have WITE2 and it's a stacking monster. I also have both Warplan games. I like playing both styles. Variety suits my different and changing moods. I never know what type of game I will be playing next week, so I own many varieties of war games.



eskuche -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 7:43:18 PM)

Since we’re talking about it here. Have you considered revisiting ops points, ZoC mechanics, and surrender for WPP? I didn’t play WPE, so my experience is with Grigsby WITE. Here, it is possible for any non-army unit to be surrounded by one division, cut off, and killed in one turn with no response. Take for example the peninsula down to Singapore, the 3-5 unit takes ZoC around the two Indian units for no penalty to movement, and the larger army attacks once and destroys them both. (Edit: yes, I am salty that my Luzon armies both died in this way to one division.) The fact that the time scale is two weeks suggests that these kinds of moves should be limited. By comparison, a ZoC to ZoC move in WITE costs (simplified) about 60% of infantry MP and 15-25% of a motorized unit’s MP (depending on factors like the equivalent of efficiency here).

I am aware that armies exert 2 point ZoC move penalty, but perhaps adjacent moves should be penalized more by default. Something like +1 additional penalty for ZoC to ZoC move for any unit regardless of size.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 9:38:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Alvaro: I admire you for giving ideas for several other games. It's got to be hard reading when someone does not like your game so much. Good job!

I like unit stacking, and sometimes it's a nice break to not play that way. I have WITE2 and it's a stacking monster. I also have both Warplan games. I like playing both styles. Variety suits my different and changing moods. I never know what type of game I will be playing next week, so I own many varieties of war games.


I know some people will love my game, some like my game, some say it's not their style, and some hate it. It's just like life. Not everyone loves soccer or American football. So I take no offense.

The good thing is that all posts contribute, even bad ones. One of the most abrasive and critical posters I have had came up with a very good idea I implemented in the game.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/11/2021 9:40:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

Since we’re talking about it here. Have you considered revisiting ops points, ZoC mechanics, and surrender for WPP? I didn’t play WPE, so my experience is with Grigsby WITE. Here, it is possible for any non-army unit to be surrounded by one division, cut off, and killed in one turn with no response. Take for example the peninsula down to Singapore, the 3-5 unit takes ZoC around the two Indian units for no penalty to movement, and the larger army attacks once and destroys them both. (Edit: yes, I am salty that my Luzon armies both died in this way to one division.) The fact that the time scale is two weeks suggests that these kinds of moves should be limited. By comparison, a ZoC to ZoC move in WITE costs (simplified) about 60% of infantry MP and 15-25% of a motorized unit’s MP (depending on factors like the equivalent of efficiency here).

I am aware that armies exert 2 point ZoC move penalty, but perhaps adjacent moves should be penalized more by default. Something like +1 additional penalty for ZoC to ZoC move for any unit regardless of size.


At this point in time a change like that would have a drastic impact on play. The Singapore units are just there to get stomped and get the charge started. It also makes it easy for the A.I. I do want that easy for players to accomplish in the game and not get bogged down in it.



CHINCHIN -> RE: Manual & Stacking Limitations (5/12/2021 7:44:36 AM)

To fall in love with the game you have to be patient and give it time. The AI does not demand too much of you, although compared to the vast majority of PC games it is not bad at all, to learn and have fun to the fullest the ideal is to play a PBEM with another player.



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