Make River Dnepr great again [retracted] (Full Version)

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Floxolydian -> Make River Dnepr great again [retracted] (5/11/2021 11:02:12 AM)

The river Dnepr in Ukraine is 18+ kilometers wide in places, for example east of Tscherkassy and south of Z-town. In-game, one hex represents 10 miles. While the Dnepr is in some places 11 miles wide. Personally, I would rather like to see at least some of these Hexes reevaluated and changed to "sea"-hexes with ferry-crossings.

In my view, this would give any defender more-historically-accurate defensive bonuses.

As you can see in the attached image, the Dnepr river-course has alternate sections of "major river" and ones that can be more practically be described as "lakes".

- disclaimer: The Title of this thread is not meant to have any political submessage, it's just a little apolitical pun -

[image]local://upfiles/79418/3E4D9A80CD8F4EF4846AEE26837C4DB4.png[/image]



Floxolydian -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/11/2021 11:21:24 AM)

Comparison between Lake Pskov (same width as Dnepr in mentioned section) reality vs in-game map

[image]local://upfiles/79418/2E0DE4CE8DA549DCA08798AFA8AD13AD.png[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/11/2021 12:58:18 PM)

be careful with modern maps, there are a number of post-war dams that significantly affect the section between Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk.

what is shown below is from a 1941 Soviet mapping of the Kiev-Kanev sector (that you have as a vast wide lake)

see

[image]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9688/3YgihS.jpg[/image]

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nm36-4.jpg

and

[image]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5060/iB58C2.jpg[/image]

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nm36-7.jpg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floxolydian

Comparison between Lake Pskov (same width as Dnepr in mentioned section) reality vs in-game map

[image]local://upfiles/79418/2E0DE4CE8DA549DCA08798AFA8AD13AD.png[/image]


so is exactly not a valid comparison of the two sectors in the war years

General advice you can't use google maps to understand the human geography of the Soviet Union in 1941



Floxolydian -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 7:27:09 AM)

Ouch, I yield! [&o]

fair enough [sm=Crazy-1271.gif]



EddyBear81 -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 1:02:39 PM)

This is why I love this game.

Simply amazing level of research and dedication. Great work.



goranw -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 1:23:00 PM)

Just to say what Loki 100 said above.
Here is from the german intelligence map in front of operation Barbarossa.
Goran W

[image]local://upfiles/4588/5E693CC458C5437BBD7656AB2006D8E6.jpg[/image]



Floxolydian -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 3:01:34 PM)

Perhaps I can somewhat try to redeem my embarassment by translating the use of this very interesting map that Goran W posted here! [:)]

It's an assessment of dates between which rivers are frozen (e.g. 23rd December to 22nd of March) and whether "tragfähig" - "able to carry", presumably vehicles.

it also notes some rivers to be "nicht jedes Jahr zugefroren" - "frozen not in every year"

depth and width of rivers is also shown.

Very, very interesting, thanks Goran!



CapAndGown -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 3:37:33 PM)

Even if the river had been dammed at that time, you can be sure the Russians would have blown up the damn. For instance, look at that lake between Dnepropetrovsk and Zaparozhe on the German map. By the time the Germans got there that lake was no longer there because the Russians blew up the dam just north of Zaparozhe. (This caused a massive loss of life since the NKVD didn't bother warning the downstream population what was coming.)



Speedysteve -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 5:02:59 PM)

I can imagine.....are there any known numbers for how many perished in that 'episode'?[X(]



CapAndGown -> RE: Make River Dnepr great again (5/12/2021 5:28:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I can imagine.....are there any known numbers for how many perished in that 'episode'?[X(]


This source says "thousands, maybe tens of thousands".



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