RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (Full Version)

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Beethoven1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/1/2021 4:40:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

AGN first. There appears to be no Soviets in Kurland - and no land route opened up across the Dvina. So either they are oos thanks to FOW or they have got away across the Gulf of Riga.



In case you didn't/are not aware, you should do naval interdiction missions to stop them from being able to get away and to ensure that they are isolated.



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/2/2021 4:23:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

AGN first. There appears to be no Soviets in Kurland - and no land route opened up across the Dvina. So either they are oos thanks to FOW or they have got away across the Gulf of Riga.



In case you didn't/are not aware, you should do naval interdiction missions to stop them from being able to get away and to ensure that they are isolated.
warspite1

I was assuming I wouldn't need them on Turn 1. Looks like that was a false assumption.



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/2/2021 4:30:22 PM)

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Army Group Centre

It looks like my concerns were overplayed and the Bialystok pocket appears to have held intact.

Again there were no land battles.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/40BD9F13F2CB47CC83E583660483777D.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 4:28:29 PM)

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Army Group South

The Soviets fought back in two places - Redhekov and Busk. Both were Deliberate attacks.

Redhekov

The 3rd Regiment of the 13th Panzer Division was assaulted by elements of the 15th Mechanised Corps. Losses of tanks, guns and men were light. Two more fighters were lost, bit the Soviets lost most of the bombers that took part in the battle.

Busk

Here the 2nd Regiment of the 11th Panzer Division lost most of their tanks holding off the 4th Mechanised Corps, containing more than 5x the amount of armour. Again the Soviet bombers paid a heavy price for the loss of two German fighters.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/56ACBC263E0846EBA2C49C95F8634C7D.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 4:34:21 PM)

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Ground Losses

The Axis losses (and Soviet for that matter) seem to have shot up - mostly in the disabled section - compared to the figures after the German turn (see loki's reasoning in post 40 for why this is).

After the German turn and then the Soviet turn.
[image]local://upfiles/28156/4339E41727A6412B8D84879DEA441591.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 4:57:33 PM)

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Air Losses

Not sure what the definition of last action and current turn is at present and will check on these too. See 23.10.2. Not completely sure what this is saying but ultimately this is not something to get hung up about!

After the German turn and then the Soviet turn
[image]local://upfiles/28156/362FB27C8D374E1AB614D216BD7ADF1A.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 5:33:26 PM)

Turn 2

Turn Summary

So this tells me:

Top Left - I have 8 ground (all infantry divisions) and 3 air units (2 Recon and 1 Tactical Bomber) arriving this turn.

93rd, 96th and 98th Divisions arrive at Brandenburg
112th Division arrives at Warsaw
15th Division arrives at Kutno
132nd Division arrives at Tarnow
46th Division arrives at Suceava

94th Division arrives at Krakow
I will not move the 94th Division. I would like to explore use of the Theatre Boxes and will use this division as my 'guinea pig'. This unit is involved in two transfers later - both in 1943. I think it highly unlikely this game will reach 1942 let alone 1943 so I won't worry about this.

xxx to look up - how most efficiently to get to the front
where do they go - what higher commands xxx

The three airgroups arrive at Axis Reserves

xxx definition of 'Axis Reserves' xxx

Losses are for the prior 6 phases. The numbers are roughly in line with those above - a few out either way - FOW?

OB changes are broken into 3 categories for the Axis: change in strength on the map, change in strength in the TBs, and change in strength of units currently in-transfer. The enemy change in strength is the
total of all three categories. Tanks and aircraft look bad already!

The whole logistics 'thing' is all a bit of a blur at present. But at least I have more trucks than I need.....[:D]

Interesting snap shot of the combat units - I will have a looks at the alerts. I have one unit with low supply and two are understrength. Unsurprisingly the two panzer regiments attacked by the Soviets are the understrength units.

The 99th Light Division, part of AGS is low on supply.

I'll need to read up on what the bottom box means, but this is not a priority for the moment.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/3905FFA4FBE642EEACD0F36613D06032.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 5:35:02 PM)

Turn Summary bottom box.



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 6:38:40 PM)

Turn 2

New Events

Right there are three screens that look like they need some attention.

Finland enters the war.
Finnish TB (AX) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Finnish TB (AX) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)
Northern Front TB (SO) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Northern Front TB (SO) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)

Apparently I don't have enough troops in Finland (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)
I don't have enough troops in the Balkans (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)

I am going to use one of my division reinforcements to 'explore' this. But I can't do it this turn as I need to wait a turn before removing to a TB.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/656428B0F030442FABA2667D888AB62E.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/4/2021 9:01:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 1
Soviet Response

Ground Losses

The Axis losses (and Soviet for that matter) seem to have shot up - mostly in the disabled section - compared to the figures after the German turn. I will have a look at the manual to see why this is.

...

two reasons

one you both (but esp the Soviets as it keys off morale/exp) take attrition losses in the logistics phase (think of this as patrols, trench raids all that sort of stuff)

the other is damaged elements are then assessed. Some become permanent losses, prob the bulk are treated as disabled (men needing more medical care than a quick return to unit), some are sent back to unit (light wounds, quick repairs etc)



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 10:17:37 AM)

Turn 2

Right so in order to try and get this turn back to my opponent today, I am going to look at two more things:

Supply
Air

Air

I'm not changing anything on air at the moment with the exception of Flieger Fuhrer Ostee, which I have requested undertake Naval Ops against Ventspils. If there are any Soviets in Kurland hoping to get across the Gulf of Riga, my aircraft will get in their way.

I don't want to send these aircraft to any ports further north without fighter cover.

This unit has:
30 BV138c at Pillau
30 Ju88A at Koenigsberg

[image]local://upfiles/28156/D281CF2A6C9D473A93BEEFADBB11279C.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 10:34:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 2

New Events

Right there are three screens that look like they need some attention.

Finland enters the war.
Finnish TB (AX) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Finnish TB (AX) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)
Northern Front TB (SO) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Northern Front TB (SO) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)

Apparently I don't have enough troops in Finland (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)
I don't have enough troops in the Balkans (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)

I am going to use one of my division reinforcements to 'explore' this. But I can't do it this turn as I need to wait a turn before removing to a TB.
..


personally I wouldn't. This is all low level stuff that settles down by about T4, you can see your opponent got 2 negative hits. As the natural reinforcement process works through it'll correct automatically.

its not active yet, but when the Soviet Union Garrison Theatre appears (T6), it'll automatically claim most of your security assets, I then top it up with some extra security units and the Rumanian cavalry brigades (these are too weak to let near the Red Army).

This over-allocation doesn't stop the Soviet partisan events but does dampen their effect, which in turn keeps your movement (esp of supply) costs down



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 10:46:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 2

New Events

Right there are three screens that look like they need some attention.

Finland enters the war.
Finnish TB (AX) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Finnish TB (AX) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)
Northern Front TB (SO) ground combat intensity is set to VERY LOW (1)
Northern Front TB (SO) air combat intensity is set to MEDIUM (3)

Apparently I don't have enough troops in Finland (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)
I don't have enough troops in the Balkans (cost - 1 VP and 1 AP)

I am going to use one of my division reinforcements to 'explore' this. But I can't do it this turn as I need to wait a turn before removing to a TB.
..


personally I wouldn't. This is all low level stuff that settles down by about T4, you can see your opponent got 2 negative hits. As the natural reinforcement process works through it'll correct automatically.

its not active yet, but when the Soviet Union Garrison Theatre appears (T6), it'll automatically claim most of your security assets, I then top it up with some extra security units and the Rumanian cavalry brigades (these are too weak to let near the Red Army).

This over-allocation doesn't stop the Soviet partisan events but does dampen their effect, which in turn keeps your movement (esp of supply) costs down

warspite1

Okay. So I get to explore the TB naturally with the SU Garrison so I'll leave it. I suspect I'll need every division anyway.....[;)]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 10:48:53 AM)

Turn 2

Supply and rail and stuff....

In my haste to get the first turn done I suspect I've cocked this up already, but never mind, I'm sure Mr Wagner is on the case.

So, ahead of turn 2 what is my supply situation and most importantly, what is happening with my rail tracks?


Army Group North
[image]local://upfiles/28156/7B0EA1F3F85D4E4CAEEAC0F792F7780E.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 11:37:57 AM)

Turn 2

Army Group Centre

[image]local://upfiles/28156/691D0684ACFC497FBB25909DD3C60287.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 11:41:11 AM)

Turn 2

Army Group South

[image]local://upfiles/28156/E01F205494A947F1AD88DAB5BBDD4B3C.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 1:52:42 PM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Air Phase

The losses as the turn was progressing was looking like a disaster for the Germans. The final numbers are at least slightly better as the Soviets take more losses.

The naval foray was nothing but a waste of aircraft and it doesn't appear there are any Soviets in Kurland...

But at least I can see some of the Soviet forces now that escaped (or were already) north of the Dvina.

Army Group North
[image]local://upfiles/28156/F4A738A64FBB4DFE86F2047C9619A8D3.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 1:59:55 PM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Air Phase

Army Group South

Nothing to report on AGC's front, but further missions were flown in the south.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/555F8513330C4549A88F4E6406A53C77.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 2:03:18 PM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

I turn the Ground Support to off.

Army Group North

The first operation is to clear the Kurland Peninsula. The 3rd Regt of the Totenkopf Motorised Division heads west to the coast to capture the port of Ventspils and runs into an MG Artillery battalion guarding the port. The Soviets are quickly overcome (surrendered) and two regiments of the 291st Infantry Division are called up to take care of the remnants of the 67th Rifle Division (routed) southeast of the port.

Wodrig's XXVI Corps are called up to seal off the eastern exit - but that is as far as the Germans can go....

[image]local://upfiles/28156/165C901BF34042EA89ABD48424C36F30.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 2:57:50 PM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group North

The next job is to clear the pocket between Riga and Vilnius. For this I use elements of 16th Army and, unfortunately, I need to employ Panzer Group 4 assets (or maybe I just thought I did).

Either way its pleasing to see the pocket liquidated and lots of aircraft and troops destroyed.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/77FB88CE3E54447E861154E5F24C134B.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/5/2021 3:41:53 PM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Before looking at Panzer Group 4 I want to move south to AGC and the pockets in their area of operations.

Army Group Centre

One thing I need to work out is to what extent liquidating the pocket is needed this turn, or whether I can afford to keep the noose tightened and reduce over a few turns.

I don't like having the Soviets behind my lines so I try and destroy as much as I can this turn. 4th Army gets to work in the north and west. Two battles prove particularly costly in terms of Soviet infantry.


[image]local://upfiles/28156/BDE2FDC7388C40EF811869DA38872164.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/6/2021 2:20:09 AM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group Centre

I am now starting to struggle to think of what to do. I followed up 9th Army's attacks in the north of the pocket, with 4th Army in the south. The problem is that neither infantry army is very far forward.

There are still a number of Soviet units in the east of the pocket, but I can't keep the pocket closed AND move forward with my armour. I have started to use some of my mobile formations thinking I could quickly get rid of the remaining enemy - but I count at least nine Soviet formations west and southwest of Minsk now....

Whoops.

A second concern is just how far I should be pushing east with my panzers - and where they should be headed for. The front seems so vast and the German units so few in number.

For my first game I think I will play it 'safe' and not venture too far without my rear secure. I will keep all of AGC north of the Pripyat and worry about AGS in the morning....


[image]local://upfiles/28156/21FA5613B8E74486AC875A2CAEA977F8.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/6/2021 8:45:05 AM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group Centre

So, knowing its not ideal - but knowing that I can't keep the pocket together - I continue on using precious panzer and motorised assets to eliminate all I can of the Bialystock Pocket. There remains enemy territory where one or two units may still be hiding but there is nothing I can do about those.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/D8D1C21121CE470CA6206532533F8274.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/6/2021 8:55:48 AM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group South

I am now going to turn attention south - and the area I am least looking forward to. The Soviets are better prepared, there are no big pockets to mop up, and my panzers have already taken a hit. Then there are the Axis satellites.....

Well I've sat here like a tit in a trance for well over an hour trying to decide what to do. I've decided to set out the key towns so that I can keep these in mind when moving.

Having cocked up the Bialystock Pocket, I am concerned I will mis-judge the liquidation of the small pockets here - and not advance far enough.

But this is supposed to be fun so lets just give it a go - for better or worse - and see what happens....

Plan

6th Army to pursue a: Rovno-Zhitomir-Kiev axis
17th Army to pursue a: Tarnopol-Proskurov-Vinnitsa axis
Panzer Group 1 to advance as far as practicable

Filter in units to the south as and when (and if) appropriate.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/4619DA71CCC24E8B9672D7A0CE5071CC.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/6/2021 11:12:10 AM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group South

Okay, question time. 6th Army have moved - only a couple of divisions have still got the power to attack. The only other unit that has moved is the SS Motorised (but this can't attack).

What is the best plan here? I am conscious that two panzer regts. got badly mauled last turn and there is a big wedge of Soviets west of Rovno.

Despite what I tell myself to do I end up with a series of full frontal assaults that get me some destroyed enemy, but not very far forward....
Panzer Group 1 seems very strung out too.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/E26FEF9F56FE47DE893AFA0A59C8F2FF.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/6/2021 11:44:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group South

Okay, question time. 6th Army have moved - only a couple of divisions have still got the power to attack. The only other unit that has moved is the SS Motorised (but this can't attack).

What is the best plan here? I am conscious that two panzer regts. got badly mauled last turn and there is a big wedge of Soviets west of Rovno.

Despite what I tell myself to do I end up with a series of full frontal assaults that get me some destroyed enemy, but not very far forward....
Panzer Group 1 seems very strung out too.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
...


You still have a lot of MP in your Pzrs so I'd free them up with 17A, use the rear elements of 1 PG to attack the Soviet front and then exploit with the existing front line Pzrs - they have the capacity for substantial movement.

Two big bits for AGS.

1) team 1 PG with either 6 or 17A, you lack the assets to spread it out. This allows you to set up the routine of rest one Pzr corps each turn, use the other 2 (well placed you can get back 50 CPP per turn if they don't move). In effect this forces you to a choice, the historical offensive via Rovno or go south around Lvov. Since you've started with the latter, stick to it.

2) the Soviets here are tricky to handle (for both sides actually). Up to about T4 SW Front can make your life a misery but its very fragile. Its really hard to reinforce (the Soviets have to put their main effort into Moscow and Leningrad) so over time units go unready (or worse) and it becomes really hard to set up a decent defensive layout. So try to do damage, to some extent you can operate without making pockets, its sustained combat that will bring about a very sudden transition in appareent force ratios.

Of course, AGS has to be in a decent state when this transition hits.



jubjub -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/6/2021 6:19:49 PM)

At this stage, if the soviets stick around in Lvov, i like to encircle the whole lot and link up with the Romanians. Also, I would clear out everything along the rail line so you can keep the fbd moving.



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/12/2021 7:58:33 AM)

Thank-you for the comments



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/12/2021 8:09:59 AM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group North

Okay so I finish up in the north with PZ4.

There were just a couple of skirmishes in the west - nothing to write home about. A lot of Soviet routed troops have got away.

At present the units within the corps are a little mixed up so I need to sort that out sharpish.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/3F88173432234959B5C08A380FB956FF.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: Barbarossa: warspite1 (Axis) vs AllenK (Soviets) (6/12/2021 8:30:58 AM)

Turn 2
29 June 1941

Army Group Centre

To PZ3 now. The actions available was compromised by the use of motorised and armoured elements in liquidating the Bialystock Pocket. The remainder of this turn for Hoth's forces was about moving them towards where they need to be for the next phase - the march on Smolensk (hopefully) as part of the northern pincer.

No additional fighting in this area.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/E24E1F6FA9124DCDB45DC392896ACD88.jpg[/image]



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