Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of)

Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (Full Version)

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maverick3320 -> Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/15/2021 6:14:59 PM)
Bottom line up front: this scenario is epic. I don't mean epic in the way people use it lately, as in "cool" or "awesome", I mean epic as an adjective. Altogether I think I've put about sixty hours into this scenario alone, including probably 6-8 hours just in planning; overall, it's been quite the experience, but I've reached a point of frustration (15 hours of game time left in the scenario) to where I'm not sure I really want to spend anymore time on it. This scenario is played from the Warsaw Pact perspective and the objective is to seize the Bosphorus. It's basically the first two days of a theater level campaign, managing hundreds of assets, mostly Russian but quite a few Romanian and Bulgarian forces as well. The unique, at least to me, part of the scenario is the option to choose some political actions that happen in the background while the war is being fought. There are two sets of choices: first, the ability to degrade one of Turkey's military branches (air force, army, or navy) to presumably keep some forces air, naval, or ground forces, respectively, out of the fight, or try and separate Greece from Turkey and keep them out of the fight. Second, the player chooses one of three options into how many victory points the player wants to invest up front to increase the success chances of (presumably) other political actions in the background. Intel was as follows: Turkey would probably fight, Greece was a wild card, an "aggressor" squadron at Incirlik. The Americans were in the Med, but too far away to really do anything and tied down with numerous Soviet forces there. I chose to A) try and keep Greece out of the war, and B) invest 400 victory points (the middle choice) to moderately increase the chances of other political successes behind the scenes while I was fighting. Unfortunately neither choice seemed to have any effect. Greece deployed a decent amount of naval assets, sent numerous air strikes at my forces, and eventually apparently started running CAPs over Turkish territory (?) as I frequently saw Greek aircraft attacking my forces from the east (!) side of the Bosphorus. I did get multiple messages saying that my political actions were working and that the military forces and government were in disarray, however, it didn't seem to have any effect; Turkey was running 4-6 plane CAPs over all their airbases and also sent numerous strikes at my forces. I also received a message that rebel forces were engaging Turkish forces (or something like that), but I never saw anything happen, and the rebels don't have any losses or expenditures below. One of the scenario notes is that, although WP has a lot of assets, no AEW assets apparently could be spared, and missile stocks were somehow in very short supply. Odd that the WP would start a war with low missile stocks and not a single Mainstay in an entire theater, but I guess you go to war with what you have (to paraphrase Rumsfeld), even if you are the one starting it. The player has a large amount of Backfires/Blinders/Badgers, but only 20 or so anti surface missiles (AS-4 Kitchen mod B). Having played other scenarios as the WP, I knew how dangerous F-16s can be (even armed with nothing but sidewinders) so I determined to try and knock out one of the main Turkish F-16 bases. I started off the war by plastering Murted AB with the 20 AS-4s, delighted that 16 or so hit the runways, approximately eight on each. About an hour later I watched F-16s take off at will from the base - apparently even though both runways showed BDA as red and "heavy damage", F-16s continued to take off. Frustrating. So I restarted and instead of going for an airfield strike targeted basically every radar in range of my air to start the scenario (since the AS-4 kitchens seemed to be the only missiles that enemy air couldn't shoot down), along with the closest naval base. This plan was much more successful, killing five 209 subs (another big worry of mine, since Soviet ASW isn't the greatest) and knocking out 8-9 radars. Yet this also turned out to be somewhat of a pointless strategy, as several hours later at least two NATO AWACs were airborne at all times over Turkish territory. I also set up three CAP zones, West (over Romanian territory), Central (directly north of the Bosphorus), and East (over the center of the Black sea). West CAP had Romanian/Bulgarian Mig-29s, Mig-21s, and Mig-23s. Central CAP had Russian Su-15s, Mig-25s and Mig-29s from Sevastopol, and since I wasn't expecting much action in the east, that CAP had only two pair of Mig-23s from Kirovsk on station. Generally the CAPs seemed to work well, at least up to the point when I stopped playing the scenario, or up to the point when the enemy would send an alpha strike, of which there were three: one composed of 20 or so Turkish F4 phantom IIs, one composed of an equal number F5s, and the knockout blow from the Americans (more on this one later). Greece also sent several semi-alpha strikes of 10-15 A-7s at once as well, and one smaller one of F-104s. Naval forces I generally re-routed from their pre-planned paths, as from previous scenario experience subs just seem to love and hide along those paths. I sent all my amphibious assets to land on the west side of the Bosphorus, along with all of my airborne assets. I didn't want to attack both sides of the Bosphorus at once and figured I could provide better air cover on the West side. Overall, my land strategy seemed to work well; by the time I left the scenario I had cleared all the enemy land forces from the west to Sakarya in the east. One note is that enemy artillery was very effective and was responsible for about 90% of the losses my land forces suffered. I understand that the game isn't designed around ground warfare but it seemed like enemy artillery could pinpoint my land forces even in the forested areas and really didn't ever miss. Enemy artillery would routinely destroy my mech forces while my artillery struggled to damage infantry and other enemy forces and never seemed to run out of ammo. Perhaps the NATO M109s are just better? Also, a large portion of my ground assets were "landed detachment" units that had no weapons (?). I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with them, so I drove all of them up to Romania and left them there. My surface naval forces worked their way to the Bosphorus with no losses; I figured the SAG centered on Slava would help provide air defense for the landing, while the other various ships would provide gunfire along the coast line. The strategy didn't really work. Of the 30 or so SAMs fired by the Slava group I think only a few ended up hitting aircraft, which seemed to be a common theme in the scenario. My three SA-5 gammon sites in the west that I thought would provide a decent air defense net didn't hit a single enemy aircraft the entire scenario. Not one. The only effective land SAM that I had was the Gecko Mod 1, which I think actually took out three enemy aircraft. The gunfire support strategy didn't really work, either. Regardless of the ship, type of ammo, or target, I rarely damaged enemy surface forces with the ship's 57mm/76mm/100mm gunfire. I probably shot at least near 1500 rounds but only hit a few targets. My strategy seemed to work well, at least up until the end. I had killed 57 Turkish F16s, along with 9 Greek F-16s and 70 Phantom IIs; as best I can tell I had wiped out the bulk of the Turkish naval and ground forces as well. What finally did me in was the Americans. I suspected the Americans would eventually make an appearance (not including the TLAM strike on several of my airbases out of the blue), as it would be hard for any scenario designer to leave them out, right? What I didn't realize was the scope. With around 17 hours left in the scenario my ELINT picks up five Jammer aircraft heading toward the bosphorus. Then four F-14 Tomcats show up, and start throwing AIM-54s everywhere around Romania, scattering my ELINT and CAP. Not a huge deal, but certainly got the heart rate going. I sent up additional air assets, knowing that jammers probably weren't sent out for no reason, and then a short while later I detect 24 bogeys in groups of four. My CAP at this point is around 20 aircraft; unfortunately, only eight of those were Mig-29s. I should point out that at this point in the scenario I'm down to about 20 total Alamo missiles on my Mig-29s, not that they were a huge asset anyway - I think only about 10% of those fired actually hit. The bigger problem was at this point several of my Mig-29 bases were also running out of AA-11 archers, which really was the only effective AAM any of my aircraft carried. I started basing Mig-29s all over the theater to try and keep them reloaded with Archers, which meant longer transit times to the CAP. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the complete - and I mean complete - worthlessness of the Mig-21/Atoll AAM combo, which was probably about 25% of my air forces. Not a single enemy plane was hit by an Atoll; in fact, it was rare for the Mig-21s to even be able to fire one, even from a few miles away and directly behind an enemy aircraft on a straight course. Mig-29s were fairly effective, but in a straight up fight against F-16s I learned early on that they lose every time, so I never fought F-16s on fair terms and tried to use my Mig-21s as meat shields (somewhat effectively). Mig-23s were mostly ineffective, as well. Mig-29s probably had 75% of my kills, followed by the Mig-25/Acrid combo with another 15%. So my CAP engages the US alpha strike, but of course eight more Tomcats show up, along with several Greek Mig 2000s, Greek F16s, and just to throw salt in the wound, four F4 Phantoms strike in the east at the same time. It was a slaughter; the strike was composed of F-18s and I lost basically every aircraft I had. The US carrier in the Med just threw basically the bulk of it's air wing at me. Seems like a curious decision for the Americans, as I thought they were tied down with Soviet forces in the Med and too far away to make a difference....guess not. Off with the intel guys' heads. Quite frustrating, as I really had no way to deal with it. I lit up my SA-5 gammons to try and assist my CAP, but as mentioned before, every SA-5 fired missed. To sum up the Warsaw Pact frustrations: 1) Awful SAMs 2) Mostly useless AAMs (with the exception of the Archers) 3) Mostly useless naval gunfire support 4) No AWACs 5) Extremely limited ASMs and AAMs 6) Horrible intel 7) Mostly useless political actions 8) End up fighting Turkey, Greece, and the US I did have a lot of fun playing this scenario, at least up until the American strike. Credit has to go to Gunner98 as I'm sure it took a ton of time to put this together. It just got a bit frustrating when Greece didn't stay out, Turkey wasn't affected, the Americans came in force, and the WP air, missiles, and SAMs were so ineffective. It seemed like every major event/decision in the scenario worked against WP - perhaps that is by design. If anyone has any tips on how they successfully completed this scenario I would love to read about it. (Stats below are from the save immediately before I tried to engage the 30+ plane American strike) SIDE: NATO =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- 39x A-7H Corsair II 1x AB.212 ASW 16x F-104G Starfighter 14x F-16C Blk 30 Falcon [Peace Onyx I] 8x F-16C Blk 30 Falcon [Peace Onyx I] 4x F-16C Blk 30 Falcon [Peace Xenia I] 35x F-16CG Blk 40 Falcon [Peace Onyx I] 5x F-16D Blk 30 Falcon [Peace Xenia I] 40x F-4E Phantom II 30x F-4E Phantom II 13x F-5A Freedom Fighter 43x F-5A Freedom Fighter 5x Mirage 2000EG-S1 16x RF-4E Phantom II 4x RF-4E Phantom II 6x RF-5A Freedom Fighter [CF-5A(R)] 6x S-2E Tracker 2x A/C Hangar (4x Medium Aircraft) 1x Building (Barracks) 1x Building (Control Tower) 1x Building (Radio/TV Station) 49x Bunker (Comms Jammer Station) 6x Diesel Bunker (750k Liter Tank) 5x Radar (AN/FPS-88) 1x Radar (AN/TPS-77) 2x Radar (Coastal ACSR) 1x Radar (HR-3000 RSRP) 1x Radar (HR-3000 RSRP) 1x Radar (MPDR-90) 1x Radar (RAT-31SL) 2x Radar (S-269) 1x Radar (S-743D Martello) 1x Radar (THD-1955 MPR) 1x Radar (TRS 22XX) 1x Structure (Naval Dock) 1x Structure (Pier [Large, 25.1-45m]) 3x Structure (Submarine Pens) 1x Vehicle (Truck Depot, 40x Vehicles) 8x 105mm SK C/32 Coastal Gun [Turret] [Cargo] 36x 105mm/32 M102 Towed Howitzer [Cargo] 24x 12.7mm/50 MG [Cargo] 60x 12.7mm/50 Quad M55 [Cargo] 8x 127mm SK C/34 Coastal Gun [Casemate] [Cargo] 24x 155mm/20 M114 Mod Towed Howitzer [Cargo] 18x 155mm/39 M109A5 Howitzer [Cargo] 96x 20mm/70 Oerlikon Mk4 [Cargo] 46x 35mm Twin Oerlikon [UAR-1021 Skyguard FCR] [Cargo] 32x 40mm/60 Single Bofors [Cargo] 24x 81mm Mortar [Cargo] 51x Adnan AIFV [Cargo] 6x Building (Generic Coastal Surveilance Radar) [Cargo] 459x Infantry Section [7.62mm MG/Unguided Infantry Anti Tank Weapon] [Cargo] 160x M113A1 APC [Cargo] 170x M60A3 Patton Main Battle Tank [Cargo] 6x Nike Hercules 3-Missile Lnchr Complex [Cargo] 52x Pandur I APC [12.7mm MMG] [Cargo] 12x Rapier Mk1 Fire Unit [Cargo] 104x Redeye MANPADS [Cargo] 15x Stinger MANPADS [Cargo] 2x Vehicle (AN/FPS-71 HIPAR) [Cargo] 12x Vehicle (DN 181 Blindfire) [Cargo] 2x Vehicle (NH LOPAR) [Cargo] 2x Vehicle (NH Missile Tracking Radar (MTR)) [Cargo] 2x Vehicle (NH Target Ranging Radar (TRR)) [Cargo] 2x Vehicle (NH Target Tracking Radar (TTR)) [Cargo] 23x Vehicle (UAR-1021 Skyguard) [Cargo] 1x A 580 Akar 1x D 346 Alcitepe [Gearing FRAM I] 4x D 349 Kilicalipasa [Gearing FRAM I] 1x D 358 Berk [Claud Jones Mod] 1x D 360 Gelibolu [Köln] 1x F 240 Yavuz [Meko 200TN Track I] 3x M 311 Sauda [Adjutant Class] 6x M 520 Karamursel [Mercure] 8x P 321 Denizkuşu [Kartal Class, Type 142A Mod] 8x P 340 Dogan [FPB-57] 3x S 336 Muratreis [Guppy IIA Class] 2x S 341 Çanakkale [Guppy III Class] 2x S 343 Pirireis [Tang] 5x S 347 Atilay [Type 209-1200, Ay Class] EXPENDITURES: ------------------ 46x AN/SSQ-41A Jezebel LOFAR 27x AN/SSQ-47 Julie Active Range-Only 28x SST-4 Mod 0 Seeaal 2123x 20mm/70 Oerlikon Mk4 Burst [20 rnds] 82x FIM-43C Redeye Blk III 698x 35mm Twin Oerlikon Burst [20 rnds, UAR-1021 Skyguard] 24x MIM-14B Nike Hercules 8x Aspide 3x 127mm/54 HE-CVT [HiFrag] 4x 25mm Sea Zenith Burst [20 rnds] 8x Mk182 SRBOC Chaff [Seduction] 354x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges] 343x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral] 80x AIM-9L Sidewinder 32x AIM-9F Sidewinder 4x 370 USG Drop Tank 11x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds] 3x Mk46 LWT Mod 2 18x AIM-9M Sidewinder 16x RGM-84D Harpoon IC 12x 100mm/55 METL 53 PFHE 5x 40mm/70 Single Bofors Burst [4 rnds] 10x 40mm/70 Twin Bofors DP Burst [8 rnds] 130x Rapier Mk1 4x Generic Acoustic Decoy 49x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds] 3x RUR-5A Mod 4 ASROC RTT [Mk46 Mod 2] 32x FIM-92C Stinger RMP 13x 40mm/70 Single Breda Burst [4 rnds] 14x 35mm/90 Twin Frag Burst [20 rnds] 2x Mk186 TORCH Flare [Seduction] 2x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction] 6x UGM-109C Tomahawk Blk II TLAM 6x UGM-109C Tomahawk Blk III TLAM 4x UGM-109C Tomahawk Blk III TLAM 6x UGM-109C Tomahawk Blk II TLAM 656x 127mm SKC/34 HE 2x SUT Mod 0 16x Super R.530D 158x Mk82 500lb LDGP 1x 150 USG Drop Tank 2x 50 USG Drop Tank 10x 76mm/50 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds] 1188x 155mm/39 HE Base Bleed 2075x 105mm/32 HE 26x 105mm SKC/32 HE 240x 12.7mm/50 Twin MG Burst [20 rnds] 13x MIM-23E I-HAWK 5x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges] 10x Generic Flare Salvo [2x Cartridges, Single Spectral] 3600x 155mm/39 HE 13x 20mm/70 Oerlikon Burst [20 rnds] 111x 25mm/75 Bushmaster Mod 1 Burst [12 rnds] 169x 12.7mm/50 Quad M55 Burst [20 rnds] 339x 105mm M68A1 APFSDS-T 226x 105mm M68A1 HE 90x AIM-7E2 Sparrow III 988x HYDRA 70mm Rocket 1x 20mm M39 x 2 Burst [80 rnds] 1344x 40mm/60 Single Bofors Burst [2 rnds] 6x GBU-10E/B Paveway II LGB [Mk84] 1x AIM-9P-4 Sidewinder 24x AGM-65B Maverick EO 8x Mk20 Rockeye II CB [247 x Mk118 Dual Purpose Bomblets] 350x 12.7mm/50 MG Burst [10 rnds] 42x Generic Unguided Anti Tank Weapon 68x 7.62mm MG Burst [20 rnds] 5x R.550 Magic 2 Mk1 4x 105mm M68A1 HEAT 11x Mk46 NEARTIP Mod 5 785x 155mm/20 HE 1x 600 USG Drop Tank 45x RGM-109C Tomahawk Blk II TLAM-C 11x AIM-54C Phoenix SIDE: WP =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- 3x Be-12PL Mail 1x Il-76M Candid B 1x Ka-27PL Helix A 8x MiG-21bis Fishbed L 14x MiG-21MF Fishbed J 10x MiG-21PFM Fishbed F 2x MiG-21R Fishbed H 5x MiG-23BN Flogger H 11x MiG-23ML Flogger G 3x MiG-23MLD Flogger K 2x MiG-25PD Foxbat E 7x MiG-27M Flogger J 3x MiG-29 Fulcrum A 6x MiG-29 Fulcrum A 4x MiG-29S Fulcrum C 4x Su-15TM Flagon E/F 4x Su-17M-4 Fitter K 6x Su-17M-4R Fitter K 1x Su-22M-4K Fitter K 2x Su-24M Fencer D 1x Su-25K Frogfoot A 1x Tu-16K-26PM Badger G Mod 43x 120mm/24 2S9-S Nona Self Propelled Mortar [Cargo] 8x 122mm/38 D-30 2A18 Towed Howitzer [Cargo] 15x 23mm ZU-23-2 [BTR-ZD] [Cargo] 79x 7.62mm MG [Cargo] 10x AT-3 Sagger B [9M14M Malyutka] [Cargo] 21x AT-5 Spandrel B [9M113M Konkurs] [Cargo] 165x BMD-1P [AT-5 Spandrel A] IFV [Cargo] 13x BMD-2 [AT-5 Spandrel A] IFV [Cargo] 6x BRDM-2 [Cargo] 4x BTR-50 APC [Cargo] 52x BTR-80 APC [Cargo] 31x BTR-MDM [Cargo] 6x Forward Observer + Sensor Tripod (Generic Laser Designator) [Cargo] 17x Forward Observer + Sensor Tripod (NVG + Generic Laser Designator) [Cargo] 197x Infantry Section [7.62mm MG/Unguided Infantry Anti Tank Weapon] [Cargo] 24x Personnel [Cargo] 4x PT-76B Amphibious Tank [Cargo] 10x SA-18 Grinch [9K38 Igla] MANPADS [Cargo] 12x SA-2b Guideline Single Rail [Cargo] 4x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail [Cargo] 9x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS [Cargo] 34x SpecOp Saboteur [Cargo] 4x SSC-3 Styx TELAR [3P51] [Cargo] 10x T-62 Main Battle Tank [Cargo] 1x Vehicle (Fan Song C [SNR-75M]) [Cargo] 1x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19]) [Cargo] 1x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125]) [Cargo] 2x Vehicle (Spoon Rest C [P-12]) [Cargo] 5x Vehicle (Truck, C2/C3) [Cargo] 3x Vehicle (Truck, Unarmed) [Cargo] 2x MPK Poti [Pr.204] 2x MRK Nanuchka I [Pr.1234 Ovod] 1x MRK Nanuchka III [Pr.1234.1 Ovod] 2x RK Tarantul III [Pr.1241.1M] 1x SKR Krivak II [Pr.1135M Burevestnik-M] 5x TK Shershen [Pr.206] 2x PL-877 Kilo EXPENDITURES: ------------------ 73x RGB-NM-1 [Passive Omni] 51x Mine MDM-6 Bottom [Pressure Fuze & Target Discrimination] 12x SS-N-22 Sunburn [P-80 Zubr] 12x AS-5 Kelt [KSR-11, ARM] 16x AS-4 Kitchen B Mod 3 [Kh-22NA INS+TERCOM] 10x AS-12 Kegler [Kh-25MP, ARM] 8x KAB-500L LGB 87x AS-14 Kedge [Kh-29L] 442x OFAB-250-270 Frag 12x FAB-250M-62 GPB 4x AS-6 Kingfish B Mod 3 [KSR-5MP, ARM] 104x RBK-250-PTAB CB [30 x PTAB-2.5 Anti-Tank Bomblets] 221x AA-10 Alamo A [R-27R, MR TSARH] 50x AA-3 Advanced Anab E [R-98MR, SARH] 368x AA-11 Archer [R-73] 36x 30mm Gsh-30-1 Burst [30 rnds] 58x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral] 65x Generic Flare Salvo [4x Cartridges, Single Spectral] 39x Generic Flare Salvo [2x Cartridges, Single Spectral] 11x RGB-1 [NATO BM-1, Search, Passive Omni] 1x 800 liter Drop Tank 10x FAB-3000M-46 GPB 24x AA-8 Aphid [R-60] 6x Generic Acoustic Decoy 71x AA-6 Acrid D [R-40TD, IR] 40x FAB-1500M-54 GPB 61x AA-6 Acrid C [R-40RD, SARH] 34x Mine [Bottom, Acoustic Narrow-Band Fuze & Target Discrimination] 112x AA-7 Apex C [R-24R, SARH] 86x AA-8 Aphid [R-60M] 10x AA-3 Advanced Anab F [R-98MT, IR] 24x SA-5c Gammon [5V28M5] 670x FAB-500M-54 GPB 4x AS-5 Kelt [KSR-2M, ASM] 2x TEST-71M [NATO TEST-83] 36x 23mm Gsh-23L Burst [40 rnds] 4x SS-N-14 Silex [85RU, Dual-Role, UMGT-1 Torpedo + 185kg Unitary] 1x 23mm Gsh-6-23 [50 rnds] 51x AS-7 Kerry [Kh-23] 490x FAB-250M-54 GPB 6x SS-N-9 Siren [P-120 Malakhit] 109x SA-18 Grouse [9M39] 12x AA-2a Atoll [R-3S] 512x S-5K 57mm Rocket 800x S-8KO 80mm Rocket [HEAT] 96x OFAB-100-120 Frag 1497x 122mm/38 HE 26x SA-3b Goa [5V27, V-601P] 15x SA-10b Grumble [5V55RUD] 8x RBK-500-ZAB [117 x ZAB-2.5SM Incendiary] 16x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges] 6x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges] 4x SS-N-2c Improved Styx [P-15M] 712x 120mm 2A51 Mortar HE 63x AT-5 Spandrel A [9M113 Konkurs] 965x 73mm 2A28 Grom HE 174x 14.5mm MG Burst [100 rnds] 2x APR-2 Orlan-M 49x SA-N-7 Gadfly [9M38] 74x SA-N-1b Goa [M-1M/P Volna-M/P, 4K91 / V-601] 13x SA-N-3a Goblet [4K60] 64x SA-N-6a Grumble [5R55RM] 30x High Explosives [C-4] 14x AT-5 Spandrel B [9M113M Konkurs] 30x AS-10 Karen [Kh-25L] 172x Generic Unguided Anti Tank Weapon 22x SSC-3 Styx [P-15M] 2x RBU-6000 Salvo [12 rnds] 310x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin HE Burst [2 rnds] 440x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds] 174x SA-N-4b Gecko [9M33M3] 864x AK-726 76mm/60 Twin HE Burst [2 rnds] 722x 7.62mm MG Burst [20 rnds] 151x 23mm ZU-23-2 Burst [20 rnds] 386x AK-726 76mm/60 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds] 65x AK-176 76mm/60 Frag Burst [2 rnds] 64x RBK-500-PTAB CB [268 x PTAB-1M Anti-Tank Bomblets] 686x AK-176 76mm/60 HE Burst [2 rnds] 16x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds] 75x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin HE Burst [6 rnds] 8x AA-7 Apex E [R-24MR, SARH] 37x SA-8b Gecko Mod-1 [9M33M3] 1x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33M] 115x 100mm/56 Frag 137x 100mm/56 HE 3x 23mm Gsh-23 Burst [GP-9 Pod, 40 rnds] 189x 115mm HEAT 94x 115mm HE 3x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin Frag Burst [6 rnds] 106x 122mm/36 HE 170x 9M22U [Grad] 122mm Rocket 96x 14.5mm MG Burst [20 rnds] 41x 30mm 2A42 Burst [20 rnds] 27x 115mm APFSDS 15x 12.7mm/50 MG Burst [10 rnds] 8x PK-10 Chaff [SR-50] 96x AK-230 30mm/65 Twin Burst [50 rnds] 5x 37mm/63 Twin Burst [20 rnds] 3x AK-630 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds] 2x AA-7 Apex D [R-24T, IR] 14x 76.2 mm/42 OF-350 HE SIDE: Turk Rebels =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- EXPENDITURES: ------------------ SIDE: Civilian =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- 1x Commercial Container Vessel - Feeder [1,600 TEU, 20,000t DWT] 1x Commercial Dry-Bulk Carrier - Small Handysize [25,000t DWT] 1x Commercial Ferry [1,900t DWT] EXPENDITURES: ------------------ SIDE: Biologics =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- 3x Biologic Fish School 2x False Contact (Medium) 1x False Contact (Small) EXPENDITURES: ------------------ SIDE: Doganay Rebels =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- EXPENDITURES: ------------------ SIDE: SOF =========================================================== LOSSES: ------------------------------- EXPENDITURES: ------------------

maverick3320 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/15/2021 7:52:30 PM)
So I just took a look behind the curtain and opened up the scenario with the scenario editor. Here's the aircraft number breakdown for each side: NATO vs WP 1st line fighters: 211 vs 80 (F-14, F-18, F-16 for NATO, Mig-29 for WP) 2nd line fighters: 160 vs 146 (F-4, Mirage 2000 for NATO, Mig-23, Mig-25 for WP) 3rd line fighters: 160 vs 96 (F-104, Mirage F.1CG, F-5A for NATO, Mig-21, Su-15 for WP) (Total fighters) 531 vs 322 Recon: 26 vs 13 AWACS: 5 vs 0 Attack: 40 vs 142 Refuel: 21 vs 8 Hvy Bomber: 0 vs 68 Note that NATO has 5 AWACs and 21(!) KC-135s in theater, and that the Soviet heavy bombers are mostly relegated to using iron bombs at high altitude (in other words, not terribly useful) with an 18 hour reload period as well. Not really sure what the Warsaw Pact was thinking when they decided to start this fight.

AndrewJ -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/15/2021 9:27:07 PM)
Wow. Seems like we had a completely different experience playing this one. Mine went a lot better. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4576183 (My AAR starts on page 3.) Political Actions I think you were expecting far too much from the political actions. In my case I chose to subvert submarines, and had a Turkish sub surface, declare itself neutral, and sail out of the fight. I also had a few explosions and sabotage happen here and there. (Those are Lua explosions, and won't appear in the expenditures.) Your choice of division between Greece and Turkey turns a 'Turk Rebels' side hostile to NATO, but it doesn't automatically give you conflict, and it definitely doesn't pull Greece out of the war. The 'Lua - Random Events' event then has to occur, which can cause a variety of small outcomes. Your 400 points bought you a 45% chance of random events occurring. Some of those events (not all of them) will then add fighters to the Turk Rebels side. So you need to get fairly lucky for actual fighting to break out. Typically what happens (and happened in my case) is you get a little bit of confusion as a small number of fighters are removed from Turkish control, and start flying intercepts on NATO without actually fighting. All these political things are unreliable, particularly ones with larger 'swingier' outcomes. Air War What sort of ranges are you engaging at? Shots taken at extreme range generally have a lousy hit chance, and if possible (which it often isn't) I try to hold fire until I'm at only 50% of the missile range. SA-5s, with their enormous range and flight time, give plenty of opportunity for enemy planes to dodge them, and I rarely expect fighter kills with them. I find they're most useful for breaking up enemy formations and forcing them to dive and waste fuel. The F-16s are decent once they get into AIM-9 range, but your MiG-23s and 25s should easily be able to avoid that. Take your pair of AA-7 shots BVR. If they hit, good, if not, burner away home and there's not a lot the F-16s can do about it. Come back in an hour and do it again. As for numbers, you're not the A-team here. They're over in central Europe, with all the good stuff, taking on the Americans, Germans, and Brits head-on. That's where your AWACS are, and most of the other modern planes and munitions. NATO does have a lot of aircraft, but many of them are third and second-line (and F-16s without AMRAAMs probably shouldn't be considered first line). All those F-14s and F-18s aren't even there for the first day and a third of the scenario, so you have a strong opening position. Hit hard then, get ashore, and fall back when the punch comes from the Americans. When you hit Murted, you mentioned 8 hits on each of the runways. Did you get the Runway-Grade Taxiway too? They can take off from that, so you have to close all three targets. BDA for the runways is frequently optimistic, and I never trust it. Unless you've gotten a runway to over 75% damage it will still be completely functional. Red and 'heavy damage' indications often mean your pilots are over-claiming, and you've actually still got a functional runway. Ground war Yes, arty is very nasty in this game, as CMO doesn't really deal with cover, entrenching, etc. The Turks have tons of ammo (they're at home, after all), while you've only got what you've brought on the boats. They're hurling 155s (7DP), while your biggest guns are 122s (4DP), and typically less. I did some NGS along the shore, and found it took a lot of pounding to accomplish destruction, especially with smaller ships guns (76mm = 0.7DP).

maverick3320 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/17/2021 8:44:50 PM)
Thank you - good feedback. Looking back, I realize that even after a poor showing against the Americans I was still in a strong position. I had captured all the major zones indicated on the map, although that still only had me at a minor victory. Sure wish I could have those 400 points back now. Yeah, perhaps I did overestimate the political actions. The scenario briefing talked up the political aspect quite a bit, perhaps that contributed to my expectations. I should know better than to trust the scenario briefers at this point, however :) Air to air ranges varied a lot, but yes, given my fear of the F-16/sidewinder combo I tried to keep them at arm's length as much as possible. I found that my Floggers' radar often had difficulty detecting/locking onto enemy air until the range at which the F-16s could get in close in at burner (and then the Apex and Alamos missed 90% of the time - I don't think I'm exaggerating here). Mig-25s were a different story, for sure: I could fire Acrids and then run away easily. The Foxbats often had trouble getting in the fight, though, due to the long range just to get to the straights. For my SA-5s, I tried to engage at less than max range. Overall, as best I can tell, I fired over 900 air to air missiles and 550 or so SAMs for ~280 air kills by missiles. I did read the Northern Fury book so I'm somewhat familiar with the fictional history (and the "real" history, which also had the Soviet A team in Europe, and to a lesser extend, the Pacific). I would think even a single A-50 could be spared, though, at least for the opening hours of an admittedly backwater theater. It seemed that this theater relied heavily on the opening 12 hours; If I were a soviet planner, I would think some AWACS support would be more useful in attempting to knock a country out of NATO versus adding to the 10 or so AWACS that are already buzzing around the Northern theater, at least in the opening hours of the conflict. I don't think I got the runway grade taxiway on Murted - good to know air can take off from that. Knocking out airbases in scenarios is always so tempting, but difficult to pull off. I did notice that every Turkish arty unit had 1200+ ammo(!), and man, it felt like they were firing non-stop the whole game.

Airborne Rifles -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/17/2021 11:41:03 PM)
Hey maverick3320, if it makes you feel better (and not wanting to give too much away) it looks like you did almost exactly as well as we’ve modeled the Soviets doing in this scenario. I know we have another Med Fury scenario planned to close the loop on the consequences of this operation…

Gunner98 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/18/2021 12:13:55 AM)
Hay Maverick3320, sorry you had such a frustrating time. I'll touch on some of your concerns. Political actions. As AndrewJ mentioned there is a lot of randomness involved. I was trying to broaden the scope of things a bit with these and give the player a feeling that they were not alone, but at the same time not really taking the fighting away. The real effect is the confusion on the Turkish side, many of the effects will reduce proficiency or deactivate actions or turn some units into rebels. The option you chose turns the Turk rebels hostile to NATO which if other random bits come into play will distract but not deter the Greeks. AWACS, the Soviet ground radar system is fairly robust so I didn't think that this would be too much of a handicap. Also there are a good number of ELINT and Recon AC available. Curious if you had the radars of the Adm Gorshkov blasting away, he also has a Ka-29RLD AEW Helo to help out in the landing area. Not perfect certainly but useful. In purest Soviet doctrine Frontal Aviation (VVS or Naval) would not have any fixed wing AEW support, that is reserved for the PVO only and directly tied to their control-heavy methods. The VVS saw this as a weakness and was developing the An-71 Madcap which you will play with in MF#5. The real issue for the Sovs is that the central front has AMRAAM toting F-15s and F-16s by the bucket load as well as Tornado ADVs so they pose much more of a threat than Aim-9 armed F-16s and Aim-7 armed F-4s etc. I cannot argue the quality disadvantage that the WP has, with the exception of the Mig-29s you are outclassed in most cases platform to platform. However as Andrew points out many NATO AC are unavailable for the first day or so and many of the Greek ones are a long way away. Some tactics help, Andrew touched on some, there is the classic attacking from 90* angles and using the 'meat shields' as you describe. For Mig-21 try brining them in at very low alt and hiding them in terrain, once the NATO AC are tangling with Fulcrums or Floggers - pop them up into NATOs tailpipes - it will at least break up the attack and allow the others to break clean. I am actually glad the USN made such an impact, programming the AI can be tricky and I like to see when it works out as planned. You will see in subsequent scenarios that the Ike is a very busy ship, MF-3 in particular gets interesting. For numbers I would call the Aim-9 carrying F-16s less than 1st but more than 2nd line and the F-14/18s only come in at the end with most of the F-18s in the strike mode and not A2A. On the other hand I would call the Su-15 a 5th line fighter, 4th line interceptor and completely outclassed in this or any other Fury scenario... but fun... And I love mixing it up between Mig-21 and F-5s... The KC-135s are a good asset, yes but needed for the USN strike to work. 21 out of the 680 available isn't excessive and there are usually more than double that number in easy reach of the area. And considering my forum name, I had to show NATO artillery in a good light [:D] -- didn't know it would be that effective though. Priority target perhaps. So I hope your not too discouraged by the scenario, it was meant to be epic and show some of the difficulties the Sovs had, and some of the priorities they were struggling with. Please rebut or add concerns as you wish, there are several more Soviet sided scenarios coming your way and it can help make them better. B

maverick3320 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/19/2021 4:41:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Airborne Rifles Hey maverick3320, if it makes you feel better (and not wanting to give too much away) it looks like you did almost exactly as well as we’ve modeled the Soviets doing in this scenario. I know we have another Med Fury scenario planned to close the loop on the consequences of this operation… I suppose I feel a bit better...ha. It actually seems like a pretty realistic outcome, now that I think about it. Warsaw Pact has enough force and momentum to take Turkey but the real question is what happens after. With this correlation of forces I would think they would run out of steam at the Dardanelles or the southern part of the Aegean - even if they repositioned land-based air, I think NATO is just too strong in the Mediterranean, and NATO air would seem to be decisive even with WP's strength on the ground. I know that Northern Fury canon has Israel neutral at least initially, but if they ever declare support for NATO/allies then it makes the correlation of forces even that much worse in the theater - and I can't see Israel staying neutral forever. Hopefully my post didn't come across as criticism - what you guys have done is extremely impressive.

maverick3320 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/19/2021 5:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gunner98 Hay Maverick3320, sorry you had such a frustrating time. I'll touch on some of your concerns. Political actions. As AndrewJ mentioned there is a lot of randomness involved. I was trying to broaden the scope of things a bit with these and give the player a feeling that they were not alone, but at the same time not really taking the fighting away. The real effect is the confusion on the Turkish side, many of the effects will reduce proficiency or deactivate actions or turn some units into rebels. The option you chose turns the Turk rebels hostile to NATO which if other random bits come into play will distract but not deter the Greeks. AWACS, the Soviet ground radar system is fairly robust so I didn't think that this would be too much of a handicap. Also there are a good number of ELINT and Recon AC available. Curious if you had the radars of the Adm Gorshkov blasting away, he also has a Ka-29RLD AEW Helo to help out in the landing area. Not perfect certainly but useful. In purest Soviet doctrine Frontal Aviation (VVS or Naval) would not have any fixed wing AEW support, that is reserved for the PVO only and directly tied to their control-heavy methods. The VVS saw this as a weakness and was developing the An-71 Madcap which you will play with in MF#5. The real issue for the Sovs is that the central front has AMRAAM toting F-15s and F-16s by the bucket load as well as Tornado ADVs so they pose much more of a threat than Aim-9 armed F-16s and Aim-7 armed F-4s etc. I cannot argue the quality disadvantage that the WP has, with the exception of the Mig-29s you are outclassed in most cases platform to platform. However as Andrew points out many NATO AC are unavailable for the first day or so and many of the Greek ones are a long way away. Some tactics help, Andrew touched on some, there is the classic attacking from 90* angles and using the 'meat shields' as you describe. For Mig-21 try brining them in at very low alt and hiding them in terrain, once the NATO AC are tangling with Fulcrums or Floggers - pop them up into NATOs tailpipes - it will at least break up the attack and allow the others to break clean. I am actually glad the USN made such an impact, programming the AI can be tricky and I like to see when it works out as planned. You will see in subsequent scenarios that the Ike is a very busy ship, MF-3 in particular gets interesting. For numbers I would call the Aim-9 carrying F-16s less than 1st but more than 2nd line and the F-14/18s only come in at the end with most of the F-18s in the strike mode and not A2A. On the other hand I would call the Su-15 a 5th line fighter, 4th line interceptor and completely outclassed in this or any other Fury scenario... but fun... And I love mixing it up between Mig-21 and F-5s... The KC-135s are a good asset, yes but needed for the USN strike to work. 21 out of the 680 available isn't excessive and there are usually more than double that number in easy reach of the area. And considering my forum name, I had to show NATO artillery in a good light [:D] -- didn't know it would be that effective though. Priority target perhaps. So I hope your not too discouraged by the scenario, it was meant to be epic and show some of the difficulties the Sovs had, and some of the priorities they were struggling with. Please rebut or add concerns as you wish, there are several more Soviet sided scenarios coming your way and it can help make them better. B Thanks for the kind words, and kudos for taking my feedback so professionally - as with Airborne Rifles, I hope my words didn't come across as criticism. I've been living this scenario for well over a month now as I play almost all of it in real time (given the old laptop hardware limitations, and my penchant for micromanaging units) so I think the USN strike got to me a bit. Next time I'll sleep on it before writing an AAR! Understood on the political actions, and it makes sense in Northern Fury "reality". AWACs/radar: you are correct; the land-based radar coverage is pretty good. Perhaps I missed the Admiral Gorshkov - are you referring to the Soviet helicopter carrier? I don't think he was in this scenario. Or was the Slava named the Admiral Gorshkov? If so, I totally missed the AEW helo - would have been nice to use. I'll try adjusting tactics on the Mig-21s; good feedback. As for the Su-15s, they actually had a few kills in my scenario. The Anabs seemed to be on par with the Aphids, and definitely outclassed the Atolls. I have to admit that I couldn't stay away from the scenario and have continued to play. With about 8 hours left on the game clock my land forces are actually on the outskirts of Murted AB and in Northern Greece as well. I'm now learning it's actually surprisingly hard to "kill" airbase structures with mech infantry and tanks! Is there a way to script the "capture" of an airfield? That would give large scenarios like this much more depth, although I suppose NATO and WP munitions wouldn't match up, so might be pointless anyway to reposition aircraft to a captured field. Glad to hear more Soviet scenarios are coming - it's always nice to have variety. Again, I can't emphasize enough how impressed I am by your work. It's added an entirely new dimension to the game for me.

Gunner98 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/19/2021 6:03:56 PM)
Thanks for your kind words, The Admiral Gosshkov is the Slava class - I gotta say it is tricky to keep track of Soviet/Russian ship renaming and then untangle them to simulate they didn't happen. This hull is the 5th to be launched in NF and in reality was the first to be cancelled at the end of the Cold War. There is a way to capture bases, then transport and lua the ammo in. In this scenario I didn't do that because I felt there was already too much other stuff going on, but it does feature in some other scenarios (Indian Ocean #3 or 4 I think) as well as some of the later NF scenarios. If you like to toy around with the Soviets, you might try Baltic Fury #2, which is a much smaller and more manageable amphibious op on Bornholm Island, and I think the bases are rigged to change sides in that one too. Pacific Fury #2 is also from the Soviet side but that focuses on strike. A few of the NF ones as well, cannot recall which at the moment.

maverick3320 -> RE: Mediterranean Fury 1 AAR (sort of) (5/19/2021 11:14:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gunner98 Thanks for your kind words, The Admiral Gosshkov is the Slava class - I gotta say it is tricky to keep track of Soviet/Russian ship renaming and then untangle them to simulate they didn't happen. This hull is the 5th to be launched in NF and in reality was the first to be cancelled at the end of the Cold War. There is a way to capture bases, then transport and lua the ammo in. In this scenario I didn't do that because I felt there was already too much other stuff going on, but it does feature in some other scenarios (Indian Ocean #3 or 4 I think) as well as some of the later NF scenarios. If you like to toy around with the Soviets, you might try Baltic Fury #2, which is a much smaller and more manageable amphibious op on Bornholm Island, and I think the bases are rigged to change sides in that one too. Pacific Fury #2 is also from the Soviet side but that focuses on strike. A few of the NF ones as well, cannot recall which at the moment. Ah, gotcha. I plan to play all the "Fury" scenarios, so I look forward to the scenarios mentioned above.

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