Effect of position of Air Counters (Full Version)

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Phoenix100 -> Effect of position of Air Counters (5/19/2021 4:50:06 PM)

Further to the query I raised in this thread - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5022620 - I wonder whether anyone knows whether moving the actual Luftflotte counters effects the positioning of Air Groups at all? In RTL, despite me moving the physical Luftflotte 1 counter quite close to 4PG and doing various other things to encourage the Air Groups to follow 4PG, it seems the AI assist can choose instead to site Air Groups at airfields quite distant from 4PG. So does moving the actual Luftflotte counter (or other Air HQ counters) have any effect at all?



Karri -> RE: Effect of position of Air Counters (5/19/2021 4:52:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenix100

Further to the query I raised in this thread - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5022620 - I wonder whether anyone knows whether moving the actual Luftflotte counters effects the positioning of Air Groups at all? In RTL, despite me moving the physical Luftflotte 1 counter quite close to 4PG and doing various other things to encourage the Air Groups to follow 4PG, it seems the AI assist can choose instead to site Air Groups at airfields quite distant from 4PG. So does moving the actual Luftflotte counter (or other Air HQ counters) have any effect at all?


Air groups follow the land-hqs (ie- AGC) they are assigned to. The Air counters are near useless, though you need to keep them within 90 hexes (I think) of "assigned" groups.



Phoenix100 -> RE: Effect of position of Air Counters (5/19/2021 6:48:55 PM)

So the counters are more or less placeholders to attach leaders to? No real point in positioning them anywhere near certain formations (except for within 90 hexes)? Really?

Thanks.



carlkay58 -> RE: Effect of position of Air Counters (5/19/2021 7:12:04 PM)

Yes the air HQs are there simply because it was necessary to have a commander on the map for leadership checks. No HQ on the map, no leader.



ByronBond -> RE: Effect of position of Air Counters (6/6/2021 2:27:58 AM)

@carlkay58 thanks for confirming. That’s what I thought I understood. But I ran into trouble with RTL myself this evening and maybe someone can suggest what I did wrong. It is VERY much related to the OP question.

Ok, playing RTL as axis against AI Soviets learning the game. Air set to full AI assist. Luftflotte was already set to follow 4thPG, so all I did was change the stance to “advance”. Started playing, and by mid July my ground forces were in a line from Pskov to Veikiye Luki, but I noticed there was basically no air activity reported in the summary screen. I had not moved any of the air HQ units map counters at all. Using the tab options to show ADs, I noticed that my ONE air directive was located well behind the front lines. The AI set just one recon AD, and I think it only did that because there were a couple of bypassed Soviet ground units in the far upper right corner of the box that shows on the map. Based on my understanding (which carlkay58 confirms) that seemed odd. But I shrugged my shoulders and moved the Luftflotte map counter way forward to one of the rail junctions southwest of Pskov.

Next air phase, voila, all of a sudden the planes are flying again, and there are now recon boxes along the front lines again, and air support to my ground units.

I clearly missed doing something that left my ADs well behind the lines, so I came to the forum to search, and found this topic which seemed relevant.

Thoughts please?



Joel Billings -> RE: Effect of position of Air Counters (6/6/2021 6:12:44 AM)

The ground HQ that you are following is what the AOG looks at. However, the supply situation is a serious factor when determining where an AOG will base itself. The AI is looking for airbases near the ground HQ that are near freight sources. It also tries to move recon and fighters further forward than bombers (can't remember if it tries to move tac bombers closer than level bombers if possible. Given the rapid German advance in the early summer of 1941, you can see supply issues keeping air units from moving forward, especially the bombers which require more support. If you have a save where you moved the air HQ forward and can go back and replay the turn without the HQ forward, it would be a good way to confirm whether it had an impact. It was not our intent to have the air HQs impact air unit placement. It's more likely that a new depot opened up (or filled up) and that's what finally got the air units forward. That's our experience.



ByronBond -> RE: Effect of position of Air Counters (6/6/2021 11:34:15 AM)

Joel,
Thank you. Turns out it was a fundamental HQ error on my part in that I had indeed left 4PG HQ far to the rear. I had coincidentally moved it forward the same turn I moved the LF map counter forward so I mistook which HQ moved “fixed” the air deployment.

Also explains why those panzers lost mobility around the same time.

I appreciate the quick reply. I may restart RTL tonight and practice HQs and logistics. I also saw on another thread that I should be able to capture Riga on turn 1. I will challenge myself to do that.



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