AI too aggressive? (Full Version)

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miljkovics -> AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 4:51:15 PM)

In my current game as Japan I had major carrier combat in July 1942 near Port Moresby. I was blocking port and beach supplying my divisions that are besieging Port Moresby, with Kido Butai near Milne Bay.
AI reacted with sending 2 CV TFs ( 2 American CVs in one, other one with CVL Hermes and British ships) to attack my ships that were blocking port.
As result allies lost 2 CVs, 1 CVL was damaged, 1 BB and 2 CAs and I lost only 1 CL/DD.
So far, so good...AI took bait and was ambushed and soundly defeated.

Next turn, I also brought baby Kido Butai (4 CVLs and CV Junyo) to mop up...and I was really surprised that another CV TF (2 American CVs) appeared...and both American CVs were sunk, with one more CA and CL.

Big victory for me, but I was surprised that this additional CV TF appeared, since I clearly had much stronger CV force there in previous turn (with 3 land based AF in west Guinea bases).

AI is set to Experienced/Excellent , with random plans.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 5:13:02 PM)

There is also intel the the A.I. might or might not realize.

A game like this is very complicated. A.I. can't do the things a human can.



miljkovics -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 5:22:56 PM)

Yeah, I get it...in a meantime AI also lost CVL Hermes and 2 more BBs while stubbornly trying to supply/reinforce Port Moresby.
At this rate, Allies will lose all surface ships there in a 1-2 months.



incbob -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 5:39:27 PM)

I don't disagree with the AI sending US CVs to save Port Moresby. I would need more information on how exactly it played out.

Honestly though, it sounds like you got very lucky. You took out 4 CVs and didn't lose anything. That is the RNG of naval combat.
If you had lost 4 or 5 CVs would you have thought that the AI was out of line?



miljkovics -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 6:06:32 PM)

Well, my point is that second CV TF (that arrived in turn 2) was a bit too aggressive imo...and especially third one (1 CLV and 2 BBs) that arrived again after 2 more turns.
It's like AI doesn't pay any attention to loses it's keep sustaining at single location on map.



incbob -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 6:12:32 PM)

That is an issue I agree with. The AI should mass its CVs


I thought I would give some more information. Take the Battle of the Coral Sea. The US sent 2 CVs right, but we should have sent 4. Nimitz had every intention of sending all 4 CVs to the Coral Sea and only didn't because the Hornet and Enterprise were still returning from the Doolittle Raid and arrived in the Coral Sea to late.



miljkovics -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 6:38:36 PM)

And one more update: September 1942, allies just tried to invade Guadalcanal.
Ofc, they lost CV Wasp, 1 BB, 1 BC, 3 CAs and 1 DD (2 TFs wiped out).
My guess that AI just stubbornly follow attack plans to certain key points, no meter what enemy forces were around that locations on previous turns.



stjeand -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 6:44:39 PM)

Sadly the AI would need terribytes of info to handle things like this.

Play a human and they won't do that...or should not.

I have tried to play the AI and just get 2 turns in and don't want too...so just playing against another human first-.
Much more interesting.



miljkovics -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 6:50:23 PM)

My intention was to play against AI to learn mechanics and than switch to Human player.
Looks like this will be faster then expected [:D]



stjeand -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/19/2021 7:01:39 PM)

Well I started against a human...and so far playing okay.

Learned a lot. If something goes HORRIBLY wrong ask to restart, for examples the Japanese loose all their carriers in May 42...
OR just play to see what you can do.

Since it is a learning I don't get upset against someone that says they can't recover and would like to restart...especially those learning. Just stated that.


I remember playing 10 to 15 WPE games against newer players and we would restart after a German disaster in France...over and over...



ago1000 -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/20/2021 5:09:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: miljkovics

In my current game as Japan I had major carrier combat in July 1942 near Port Moresby. I was blocking port and beach supplying my divisions that are besieging Port Moresby, with Kido Butai near Milne Bay.
AI reacted with sending 2 CV TFs ( 2 American CVs in one, other one with CVL Hermes and British ships) to attack my ships that were blocking port.
As result allies lost 2 CVs, 1 CVL was damaged, 1 BB and 2 CAs and I lost only 1 CL/DD.
So far, so good...AI took bait and was ambushed and soundly defeated.

Next turn, I also brought baby Kido Butai (4 CVLs and CV Junyo) to mop up...and I was really surprised that another CV TF (2 American CVs) appeared...and both American CVs were sunk, with one more CA and CL.

Big victory for me, but I was surprised that this additional CV TF appeared, since I clearly had much stronger CV force there in previous turn (with 3 land based AF in west Guinea bases).

AI is set to Experienced/Excellent , with random plans.


+1
The other thing it does is stick around instead of retreat until you basically wipe it out.

A suggestion I made in an alternate threat was if CVs suffer more than 25%+ damage on an attack, it should switch from fleet mode to raider mode. It's no longer looking for a fight but fleeing. Maybe food for thought for the AI if possible. For now, I'm experimenting with the house rule no more than 3 1st class CVs and 1 Light carrier in a task force before mid 44 when I play the AI. In WPE my house rule was that reinforcement/upgrade value should never drop below 40% of total production. That also helped the AI in WPE and made for an enjoyable experience.

IMO, this is where I don't mind the AI cheating. For example, in the situation above, the AI moves its carrier TF to home ports for repair on it's turn. Also, when more CVs enter the production queue, the AI gathers all the CVs in one of it's home ports and makes larger size carrier TFs then sends them out again on their next turn.

I remember playing Civ III and having only one unit defending it's capital and I would have a stack of 12 units attack it, and that unit held. lol. That was a little to obvious.

This game has become the "just one more turn before bed game", and is great as is. This are just some thoughts or suggestions, maybe for future games like WP2, or WP3.



incbob -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/20/2021 5:12:27 PM)

I LOVE the idea of an AI that uses the same rules as the player.

I also realize that if I want a good idea the above is impossible. For a good AI it might need to cheat. As long as it doesn't do anything obvious WTF, I am okay with that.



ago1000 -> RE: AI too aggressive? (5/20/2021 7:29:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: incbob

I LOVE the idea of an AI that uses the same rules as the player.


I'd like that too. Maybe some day.



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