Rebuild total AV ? (Full Version)

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clamel -> Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 9:59:24 AM)

I read and searched to get this clear. I know how to rebuild and the restriction like different equipment and such, and have rebuilt units on several occasions. BUT

Reading the manual and also listening to some YTubers that some "extra" strength will pop up for that new unit "icon" when it has all the divided units revuilt into a higher command.
These statement also is visual in the manual, as one can see with that Burma Div. It looks to get 448 AV when combining those 3 brigades. which is a lot more than the brigades got as a total diveded. In that case almost twice the strength of AV.
Now in my game I never see that total AV, since all checked possible rebuilds all show ZERO.
Then when I do rebuild any of these they just add up to their individual AV combined, so no extra like the picture show in the manual.

Now what have I missed on this, and why do some talk about boosts when combining and others a more powerful combined unit ?
I would like to see this in numbers to know if it at all have any reason to combine units.




[image]local://upfiles/69206/9084C4520A3F4AB493CFDA3E74B67DFA.jpg[/image]



Sardaukar -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 1:20:54 PM)

Larger units are less prone to outright destruction in combat.



Lowpe -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 1:34:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

Then when I do rebuild any of these they just add up to their individual AV combined, so no extra like the picture show in the manual.

Now what have I missed on this, and why do some talk about boosts when combining and others a more powerful combined unit ?
I would like to see this in numbers to know if it at all have any reason to combine units.




[image]local://upfiles/69206/9084C4520A3F4AB493CFDA3E74B67DFA.jpg[/image]


There are a couple of Japanese units that gain new devices when combined. Not sure about the Allied side. In effect once combined these special units get a TOE enlargement upon combination.

I am not sure it is obvious from the in game reports.



RangerJoe -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 2:15:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

Then when I do rebuild any of these they just add up to their individual AV combined, so no extra like the picture show in the manual.

Now what have I missed on this, and why do some talk about boosts when combining and others a more powerful combined unit ?
I would like to see this in numbers to know if it at all have any reason to combine units.




[image]local://upfiles/69206/9084C4520A3F4AB493CFDA3E74B67DFA.jpg[/image]


There are a couple of Japanese units that gain new devices when combined. Not sure about the Allied side. In effect once combined these special units get a TOE enlargement upon combination.

I am not sure it is obvious from the in game reports.



Some of the regiments that come in may have divisional equipment with them such as the US Marine regiments, others will not and then when combined will receive the divisional equipment as replacements that the individual regiments do not have.



fcooke -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 4:05:28 PM)

I defer to the folk who have seen new devices become available upon combination, but in the case above the 448 is possible if everything is filled out. I am betting none of those subunits are up to full strength. And in the case of Burma units, available squads/whatever are in such short supply you are unlikely to ever get that division up to full strength. That said I always rebuild units going into the line because, as mentioned above, they are far less likely to get crushed than their divided components.



RangerJoe -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 5:00:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

I defer to the folk who have seen new devices become available upon combination, but in the case above the 448 is possible if everything is filled out. I am betting none of those subunits are up to full strength. And in the case of Burma units, available squads/whatever are in such short supply you are unlikely to ever get that division up to full strength. That said I always rebuild units going into the line because, as mentioned above, they are far less likely to get crushed than their divided components.


If you get the Burmese division units out before combat, it will have extra Burmese squads. Then the unit will be reorganized and renamed as an Indian division. The Burmese squads eventually upgrade to Indian squads so don't waste them either since you may need them as 1944 Indian squads.

I do believe that the Burmese units that withdraw have their squads returned to the pools as well. So again, don't waste them.



BBfanboy -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 6:34:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

I defer to the folk who have seen new devices become available upon combination, but in the case above the 448 is possible if everything is filled out. I am betting none of those subunits are up to full strength. And in the case of Burma units, available squads/whatever are in such short supply you are unlikely to ever get that division up to full strength. That said I always rebuild units going into the line because, as mentioned above, they are far less likely to get crushed than their divided components.

Yeah, the sub-units likely are under-strength from their regiment/brigade TOE. Most of the AV in an LCU under division size is usually Infantry, Engineer and MG squads. Forming a Division usually adds extra artillery, AA and perhaps A/T guns, none of which provide additional AV but increase firepower. Sometimes a small Recce element will be added as well - like 4 Humber 1s.
Subsequently dividing the Divisional unit into 3 yields A/B/C parts of the division which are equal to the extent the Division devices are divisible by 3.

In US parlance each third of a division is a "Regimental Combat Team" (RCT) because it has a Regiment worth of infantry and supporting elements that make it more capable. IIRC, some arriving units are RCTs without the rest of the Division being present anywhere. Just treat them like a Brigade.



clamel -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 6:53:25 PM)

OK, thanks mates for these answers. I think I got a better and clearer view of it.
As the picture show a total AV for that Burma Div is something I never seen (so far). All my units possibly to rebuild show zero, and the two I rebuilt the AV was a strict total of the units I pulled together.
I be carefull with the Burmese units then.
I was thinking on the 12th Indian Bde (Argyll,and the two Punjab Bns)
The ones I have rebuilt was the 11th Indian Div and the 30th Australian Bde.



RangerJoe -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 6:57:55 PM)

Sometimes when you build a unit, it will have a device that was not in the smaller units but the amount will be "0" which is what you need to get as replacements.



BBfanboy -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 7:21:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Sometimes when you build a unit, it will have a device that was not in the smaller units but the amount will be "0" which is what you need to get as replacements.

Yes, unlike Infantry Regiments, Brigades often have extra artillery and such which might make them the equivalent of a third of a division without any additions to the TOE. Take it on a case by case basis.

Since no one has mentioned pools yet, I advise you to check the Intel Report screen, click on the "Industry/Troops/Resources" hypertext and use the filters at the top to look at the devices for the Nationality and type of unit you are considering. It will show the devices available to that type of unit and how many are in the pools, plus monthly production and replacements available. British and Commonwealth units have quite low production rates so you must try to avoid heavy combat that could leave your units understrength and no replacements available in the pools.

For example, the starting units are usually very inexperienced, poorly led, understrength and poorly supplied and have poor morale. These will need six months to a year to become reasonable fighting units without any combat. If thrown into combat, there is a good chance they will be wiped out. But once they get beyond 50 Experience, get decent leaders, are close to their TOE being filled out and are paired with stand-alone artillery, AA and A/T units they can be decent fighters. First offensive combat should be with very weak enemy units in open terrain if possible. If Defending, have them in good defensive terrain. The idea is to get them "blooded" without losing too many squads. Then their Experience will go up as disablements come back to strength. That is how I envision "being careful" with using these units and protecting the shallow pools.



RangerJoe -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/22/2021 8:18:13 PM)

Also, don't upgrade the devices unless you really need to, especially with the Commonwealth. For some things, the American pools are shared with other countries like China.



HansBolter -> RE: Rebuild total AV ? (5/24/2021 11:54:58 AM)

The Division/Corps(for Chinese) is the fundamental unit.

Anytime you have to fight a large siege battle over a base hex the Division/Corps is the unit of choice.

Battalions get destroyed in siege battles. Regiments/brigades take a beating.

The game engine will 'upgrade' units beyond 100 percent strength in what seems to the player like a random manner.
There is no control over it by the player. It just happens.

Players make basic strategic plans and analyses of opponents capabilities based on numbers of available Divisions.

To truly enjoy this game players have to let go of the sometimes overwhelming desire to gain tactical control and min/max every last aspect of gameplay. The game engine is designed to prevent you from ever having tactical control.



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