US Convoy Problem (Full Version)

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kennonlightfoot -> US Convoy Problem (5/26/2021 3:17:21 PM)

It is the first months of the war and I notice none of the US Convoys are reaching Australia or India. I have them set to move Production points to both these countries. The US has merchants but it shows none in use.

Is there something else in the game mechanics that can block the convoy routes?
Particularly the South Pacific one?



eskuche -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/26/2021 3:37:28 PM)

Show screenshots please. It’s possible you used too many? There is no manual route channels AFAIK; but secondary ports can turn into main ones for a minor country receiving resources if the mainis taken.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/26/2021 5:55:32 PM)

I just creates all convoys to all CW nations from UK and USA. Double check MMs used.



kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/26/2021 9:11:35 PM)

I can't find a reason unless there is some other place that controls convoys. The screen shot below shows what I have set. In the Trade panel it shows I have set it to send 50 PP to India and 40 to Australia (I also tested with a 20/20 split just incase not having 90 Merchant Marine triggered a bug). The Convoy Routes show convoys in both the South Pacific and Indian Ocean. But the Production screen (which I cut out the Merchant line to the right) shows I have 43 Merchant Marines with "0" in use. There was no apparent movement of supplies.

Interestingly, the Japanese Sub unit was also attempting Convoy attacks for two turns. There were no Convoy Attacks.


[image]local://upfiles/22005/90B7D740B1344888BC56722712BA5E43.jpg[/image]



eskuche -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/26/2021 9:27:53 PM)

I’m pretty sure the 43 green in the left box means they are all in use somewhere else. Free MM are in the row below that. You have no other US convoys? It’s possible something bugged out if you bumped into a bug resetting convoys turn 1.

Also what does it say when you hover over the convoy lane with mouse?



ago1000 -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/26/2021 10:57:54 PM)

43 means you have 43 available and 0 being used. That means all your MMs are docked doing nothing. Weird. Especially since the South Pacific and Indian Ocean trade routes are open. You should be carrying at least 43 resources out of the 90.

[image]local://upfiles/13464/0B4CAB12B68B4F049AC9E087DB6813A8.jpg[/image]



kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 12:48:28 AM)

Exactly. Something is locking them up but I can't find out what it is or how to unlock it. It may or may not be valid but it would be helpful to know what is going on and when I will have control of my own merchant convoys.

The green color could have some meaning but I haven't found it yet in the rule book. If it indicates that they are in use "somewhere else", it would be nice to know where that is and if there is something I should do to "free" them up.

As far as I know the supply systems to for the non-player controlled imports and exports doesn't use the Merchants but that may have changed. It couldn't be a 1:1 because they show about 560 supplies moving to the various US controlled islands.



eskuche -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 12:53:23 AM)

Supplies don’t use your MM as far as I can tell.



ago1000 -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 12:56:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

Exactly. Something is locking them up but I can't find out what it is or how to unlock it. It may or may not be valid but it would be helpful to know what is going on and when I will have control of my own merchant convoys.

The green color could have some meaning but I haven't found it yet in the rule book. If it indicates that they are in use "somewhere else", it would be nice to know where that is and if there is something I should do to "free" them up.

As far as I know the supply systems to for the non-player controlled imports and exports doesn't use the Merchants but that may have changed. It couldn't be a 1:1 because they show about 560 supplies moving to the various US controlled islands.

It goes red when you don't have enough MMs. Did you try turning all routes off for one turn then back on the next? Maybe it will reset something. Just a shot in the dark here. (Maybe try that will all routes for all countries) My initial thought was the UK was using the US MMs. But they (UK) have 65 extra from your pic.
Edit: Another thing you can do is transport everything to the UK and have the UK distribute it to Aus and India for a turn.



amhendrick -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 12:01:58 PM)

My understanding is that if you send production/oil the recipient's merchant marine is used. So if you send 50 oil to Australia, it would draw 50 MM from the UK, and then from the US only if UK didn't have enough. Though I am not sure that answers your question since US + UK should be enough to carry the 90 production.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 2:09:16 PM)

I'll double check. Why am I the only one that never has these problems in my games?!?! Oh yea I'm cheating.



ago1000 -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 2:22:58 PM)

I have seen UK borrow from US, but I haven't seen it reciprocated. Here is an example where US had only 43 MMs and UK had extra after the fall of DEI. No help from the UK. In kennonlightfoot pic above, it's like his MMs are on strike.

Thanks Alvaro. When checking I was wondering if you could look at the info window at the bottom left too. It cuts off the resources being shipped.

[image]local://upfiles/13464/FCF758D0EAC940DFAB9BBFA5380F4E43.jpg[/image]



Friedrich3 -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 2:49:50 PM)

kennonlightfoot want to create two trade routes with a total of 90 MM but he has only 43 so the trade will never be established. It is confusing because the game allows you to create a trade although you can not. I tried this with the UK in the first turn of the 41 campaign: all 105 MM are in use but you can establish trade routes that will never be active.



kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 3:07:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Friedrich3

kennonlightfoot want to create two trade routes with a total of 90 MM but he has only 43 so the trade will never be established. It is confusing because the game allows you to create a trade although you can not. I tried this with the UK in the first turn of the 41 campaign: all 105 MM are in use but you can establish trade routes that will never be active.


Thought of that. Also tested with 20 each. If it keeps happening I will try some other combinations. But in Warplan (Europe) it handled over allocation automatically and gave you a warning if it had to use Allied shipping.



kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 3:12:01 PM)

quote:

I have seen UK borrow from US, but I haven't seen it reciprocated. Here is an example where US had only 43 MMs and UK had extra after the fall of DEI. No help from the UK. In kennonlightfoot pic above, it's like his MMs are on strike.


I am not sure that will happen in Pacific. In Europe version the receiving country could use its Merchants to make up difference. But in Pacific India has no Merchants so this can't happen unless Britain acts for India. I will have to check to see if UK has extra Merchants since they are shipping PP at max rate to India already. But if Pacific works like Europe it generates a message saying that the Allied shipping was used to make up difference.

But still leaves the question where are the US "43" going or not going?



kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 3:15:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I'll double check. Why am I the only one that never has these problems in my games?!?! Oh yea I'm cheating.


That is because you know the secret "God Mode"[:)]

Actually you know the game inside and out and may be doing something I am not that is triggering the problem.
Always a problem for the game developer, they underestimate the super human ability of the user to screw things up.



ago1000 -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 3:31:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

quote:

I have seen UK borrow from US, but I haven't seen it reciprocated. Here is an example where US had only 43 MMs and UK had extra after the fall of DEI. No help from the UK. In kennonlightfoot pic above, it's like his MMs are on strike.


I am not sure that will happen in Pacific. In Europe version the receiving country could use its Merchants to make up difference. But in Pacific India has no Merchants so this can't happen unless Britain acts for India. I will have to check to see if UK has extra Merchants since they are shipping PP at max rate to India already. But if Pacific works like Europe it generates a message saying that the Allied shipping was used to make up difference.

But still leaves the question where are the US "43" going or not going?

You may have hit the nail on the head because the game engine is the same. I had a similar problem with India after the fall of DEI and I shipped first to the UK and then the UK shipped to India since UK had an abundance of MMs. In my game it seemed to correct itself. Hence my suggestion above. This may also explain why UK doesn't provide MMs to US when shipping to Aus or India while US is short of MMs. It only works directly. But your right, in your pic above, your MMs are not moving and that's weird. Looking forward to seeing what Alvaro finds.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 3:35:32 PM)

These are hotseat tests right? And yes the convoy system is the same as WPE



AlvaroSousa -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 4:07:39 PM)

I think I might see the reason. I am in an online game with Hadros that he turned off the N.A. and the India resources got cut. I realized when you turn off the main flow convoy, which is the North Atlantic convoy you cut everything. It is an issue going on on occasion with players that I noticed. Now I realize it's because he shut off the MAIN CONVOY.

So this might be the case here. Also I found a slight discrepancy on the map in South Australia for the convoys.

The Indian Ocean convoy didn't link to Australia by itself. It needed the South Pacific.

Anyways I realize the issue is it is difficult to figure out the convoy network. Why I didn't think of this earlier I didn't know. So I need to add something when players toggle the convoy system so they know EXACTLY which hexes connect where.



ago1000 -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 6:16:45 PM)

Not to through a curve ball into the mix but kennonlightfoot reminded me of an important point from WPE. Shouldn't the UK be providing MMs for the delivery and not the US since India and Aus are minors under UK major control? In all my games, the US provided the MMs, but it should be the UK? Should it not? That still wouldn't explain the issue above, but I am curious of the mechanics at play here.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 7:34:46 PM)

If the UK is sending resources those MMs are used
If the USA is sending resources those MMs are used.
Only when it's major to major do they share.

I might just have an Allied convoy pool next time to avert this problem or have players assign their own convoys. It is an automated system. I am adding something to the game.

BTW I wanted to come out with an update this week for both games but players kept finding bugs so I kept working on them.



FirstPappy -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 7:44:06 PM)

Allied pool might be the way to go especially if you forward think future plans of WPE+WPP.



ncc1701e -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 7:49:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I'll double check. Why am I the only one that never has these problems in my games?!?! Oh yea I'm cheating.


I knew it !!!! LOL [:)]



AlvaroSousa -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 10:47:52 PM)

I spent the day adding a new feature to both games. This will show all the DIFFERENT convoy lanes so players have a better understanding of where things go.

The "Y" key, next to the "T" for trades key, will show each lane ID. I'm so used to the game I forgot players might not know where the dividing line is. Hovering over a convoy lane gives you the name but not the whole picture at once. This will. I didn't include earlier because when I started I didn't know how to do it effectively.

Anyways here is what it looks like. Each lane will have its own picture and color for players. That way even color blind players can make out the different lane icons. They are kind of appropriate to their names or some historical reference.



[image]local://upfiles/45679/010E70332A4A48A891B5782F59588FC3.jpg[/image]



Numdydar -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/27/2021 11:09:42 PM)

In the picture above, it seems odd that a convoy lane with the Rising Sun symbol switches mid-ocean to a different symbol. Should not the Rising Sun lane go all the way into the all the points South? Like the DEI, Indochina, etc.?



kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/28/2021 2:02:18 AM)

quote:

I think I might see the reason. I am in an online game with Hadros that he turned off the N.A. and the India resources got cut. I realized when you turn off the main flow convoy, which is the North Atlantic convoy you cut everything. It is an issue going on on occasion with players that I noticed. Now I realize it's because he shut off the MAIN CONVOY.


Not sure what you are referring to with "N.A." and "MAIN CONVOY"
Also this is an ongoing PBEM game.


Also noticed an interesting thing with the British Convoys. This is probably correct but I hadn't noticed it before.
The British Convoys to India are working but the numbers show some other things.

The British have 102 MM but can only send 17 PP to India so I set that at its maximum of 17.
The Production screen shows UK having 102 MM with 37 in use.

Which is interesting since the UK is only sending 17 PP so should have used only 17 MM.
But if you add up the Imports from India to UK (green left arrows) they add up to 20 PP.

So it looks like Imports use up UK Merchants.
The US has no Imports so it doesn't explain what I am seeing with them.




kennonlightfoot -> RE: US Convoy Problem (5/29/2021 8:13:37 PM)

I did get Convoys to work again by some odd actions with UK.

I set the UK to send its maximum amount to India which is 17 PP.
I set the US to send the UK 10 PP and 30 PP to Australia.

This resulted in:
UK having 94 MM used 61 MM.
This broke down to 17 to India, 34 in imports from other countries to UK and 10 in imports from the US.
While the US was sending 10 PP to the UK, apparently this triggers the UK to use its MM for the convoy.

This apparently triggered the the South Pacific convoy route to start working because the US use 30 MM that turn which was the 30 PP allocated to go to Australia. No way to verify Australia actually received them.




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