Road to Minsk (Full Version)

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Majick -> Road to Minsk (6/2/2021 10:41:11 AM)

Hello All,

The Road to Minsk scenario, rather than being a useful learning exercise, has proved to be an obstacle to me moving on with the game at all.

I've played the scenario 6 or 7 times, and as far as I can see it isn't physically possible within the time limit for the axis player to capture the objectives which are furthest East (specifically those along the Dnepr).

Despite capturing Minsk and several other objectives the most I've been able to achieve is a minor or tactical victory.

This is an obstacle for me to playing the game further because if I can't move fast enough to achieve a total victory in the tutorial scenario, then it's pretty clear if I play the campaign game I am guaranteed to be running behind the historical schedule from the very beginning. Either I'm fundamentally misunderstanding some concepts or the scenario is flawed.

Methods I have used are to:

1/ Achieve the breakthrough with low mobility infantry units.
2/ Ensure enemy zones of control have been removed from my axes of attack as deeply as possible (which of course go along the road network wherever possible).
3/ Push the mobile units as far as possible towards the objectives, only entering zones of control of broken units which will auto-rout, and only engaging in combat with enemies sitting on objectives or blocking any further advance.
4/ Ensure that all mobile units are in range of their HQs at the start of turn 2.

So, what is they key to this scenario which I am missing? Or is it actually impossible to capture enough of the objectives for any sort of substantial victory?



Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: Road to Minsk (6/2/2021 10:56:46 AM)

IMHO If you can capture and hold Minsk on T1 and keep the Bialystok pocket secure then you are good to move on really. I wouldn't stress about the victory levels for such a small scenario.

The two longer Barbarossa scenarios (Road to Leningrad and Destruction of SW Front) are probably better tests of whether there are any gaps in your play that might cause you difficulties in the campaign.

In the future it would be nice to have a 17 turn AGC Barbarossa scenario equivalent to the AGN/AGS ones mentioned above.




loki100 -> RE: Road to Minsk (6/2/2021 11:29:19 AM)

as above, think you've got all there is in this scenario

what we wanted was something that was different to the V-L situation. Also getting AGC sort of right is key to the main T1, and that is basically all about secure Minsk, clear the rails, create and secure the pockets. Over time you can try to cut the margins on this and see if you can push over the Berezina.

So Minsk supplies 2 things. its more dynamic than V-L and getting a marginal win in the scenario will give you a solid basis for this sector in the main campaign.

So yes, now use Leningrad as a relatively low density multi-turn test to see the legacy of early decisions. DSWF has more counters but is in some ways easier for the axis player (less trees and constricting terrain)



Majick -> RE: Road to Minsk (6/2/2021 12:36:44 PM)

Thanks for the responses Sammy and Loki. In that case I'll dust myself off and move on to the scenarios you have mentioned :)



leegle -> RE: Road to Minsk (7/6/2021 5:28:41 AM)

Hi Loki

I've also been stuck on Road to Minsk, can only get marginal victory. New player, but I think I understand most of the rules now.

Like OP said, I just can't work out how to get more than 4 objectives with the tanks in time - they run out of movement points. Tried taking the most optimal path but can't get anywhere close.

Is it theoretically possible to get them all and get a decisive victory in this scenario? Or is marginal all that's possible? For other scenarios - is it not always possible to get a decisive victory?

Or am I doing something wrong :)

Cheers

Lee




loki100 -> RE: Road to Minsk (7/6/2021 6:42:24 AM)

I've actually never played the scenario as by the time it was added to the game set I sort of had my own conception of how to use AGC.

It was added for a couple of specific reasons. While the Velikie Luki scenario is good for some aspects of game learning it lacks any real scope for movement. Terrain and weather makes that part of game play mostly linear. So one thing to use the scenario for is to explore that aspect of gameplay, with the capacity to cover 30-40 hexes with a single unit in a turn.

Related, taking Minsk on T1, closing the Bialystok pocket and making sure the dual rail lines are clear are key parts of any axis play in the main campaign. Whatever your final personal version of the invasion becomes you'll always need to nail down those 3 aspects. Now what, even in the campaign, you do in T2 is more situational.

Things that come into play is how fast can you release infantry from the border battles to push east, where the Soviets have concentrated and what you planned to do. To me that makes taking the T2 targets a bit more optional.

But T2 can show you some very useful things. Which Pzr formations now have high MP (40+) which are under 30? Could you have ended T1 differently to avoid the latter? Was the last hexes you took worth the cost in terms of T2 mobility (& the Pzrs combat power is far less important than their mobility).

This is a bit of a puzzle with many moving parts but I think resolving that trade off is the key to T2. If most of your motorised is up around 40 MP you probably do have the capacity to disrupt whatever defense the AI has constructed and break through to those targets.

But I wouldn't fuss over it, move onto the other 1941 scenarios. Road to Leningrad has less units (but obv more turns) and helps explore longer term feedback loops, but the terrain is truely horrible north of Pskov. Destruction of SW Front is larger but really allows you to learn about Pzr operations (& their resupply) in open terrain.



TallBlondJohn -> RE: Road to Minsk (7/14/2021 9:13:19 PM)

The key to getting a Major Victory (for the Germans) in Road to Minsk is to have the panzer groups create a path of flipped hexes so wide that they can drive east without having to leave flank guards behind. 3rd Panzer group has to push for bridgeheads over the Berezina, only capturing Minsk in passing (and while making sure 2PG can link up of course, usually north of Baranovichi). 2nd Panzer Group needs to get as many units as possible far east as possible, aiming for bridgeheads over the Ptich. An important part of doing this is mounting overwhelming infantry attacks before the panzers roll to minimize combat delay, which otherwise will cripple you, and attack with rear units first to give the forward units the maximum exploitation.

The Russians will then form a line to defend the victory towns along the Dnepr, but they cant cover everything. Lepel, Borisov and Bobruisk should all fall and then its a dash for Zhlobin, Orsha or Mogilev and maybe Polosk if it hasn't been garrisoned.

This is not easy but if its a Major Victory it shouldn't be. An extra turn would be fun!

Another tip - on turn one obliterate the various front line fortresses and move through so that you are not just surrounding Western Front but cutting it into small pieces for rapid demolition on turn two. In a full game you have to get pockets cleared ASAP so the infantry can get east.



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