Is this going to be beyond me? (Full Version)

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MarkShot -> Is this going to be beyond me? (6/12/2021 4:26:10 PM)

I understand ground combat (tactical, operational, and strategic).

WWII games familiar with CMx2, MIUS/TWT/GTOS, HOI4, Panther Games(all), ...

But I have never played any uber-grog TBS operational war game (except Panther {uber but not TBS}; was actually a team member). This means, I have never played any title by Gary.

I have downloaded the manual, and plan to check out the resources page.

I am retired and I do have time (or, at least, I like to believe so).

So, should I consider this title? I know I am not learning it in one night, but I don't want to find that a year has gone by and I am still just reading and have yet to play a game. (Because I do take graduate classes as a retirement hobby ... so, I would be purchasing this as a game, as opposed to trying to find something more mind bending than Quantum Mechanics.)

Thanks.

PS: Some of you probably know me. Now, be nice. These forums are supposed to be family friendly! :)



GloriousRuse -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/12/2021 4:56:20 PM)

Nah. With your experience it’ll be pretty intuitive. A little bit of click learning, a little bit of getting the feel of the relative value of forces, and then figuring out how to manage a handful of oddities (support units for instance), and it’ll all basically make sense.



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/12/2021 5:09:30 PM)

With the WITE series, and including WITE2 of course, after playing the tutorial scenarios, you can have a lot of fun playing the 41-45 monster campaign by just pushing the counters (even if surviving the 41-42 winter as Axis will be a true challenge [:D] ).
But if you want to dig to the near infinite level of details and mechanics, you can devote your life to the game ;-) (well until the release of GG's War in Europe in about 10 years from now)

So up to you to decide to what extend you want to go in depth but in any cases you will have fun.



warspite1 -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/12/2021 6:33:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I understand ground combat (tactical, operational, and strategic).

WWII games familiar with CMx2, MIUS/TWT/GTOS, HOI4, Panther Games(all), ...

But I have never played any uber-grog TBS operational war game (except Panther {uber but not TBS}; was actually a team member). This means, I have never played any title by Gary.

I have downloaded the manual, and plan to check out the resources page.

I am retired and I do have time (or, at least, I like to believe so).

So, should I consider this title? I know I am not learning it in one night, but I don't want to find that a year has gone by and I am still just reading and have yet to play a game. (Because I do take graduate classes as a retirement hobby ... so, I would be purchasing this as a game, as opposed to trying to find something more mind bending than Quantum Mechanics.)

Thanks.

PS: Some of you probably know me. Now, be nice. These forums are supposed to be family friendly! :)
warspite1

No way of being able to give you a definitive answer as there are so many variables. I would say this - and hope it helps you one way or the other.

I have all the big GG games - WITP-AE, WITE and WITW. I tried to get into the first but gave up. The other two I never really tried. I love WWII naval warfare and WWII generally but....

Conclusion: GG games are just not for me.

It wasn't the complexity - although these games are complex. It was that WITP-AE just wasn't fun for me. So I quickly came to the conclusion that even if I 'got' the game eventually, I wouldn't actually enjoy the mechanics.

So why try WITE2? Well I was encouraged by how much can be automated (so that a player's workload while they learn the game is managed).

The forum (like WITP-AE to be fair) is friendly and helpful and provides encouragement for newbies.

Thirdly, I have a player I know and trust from MWIF and SC:WaW and we are learning this as newbies on the same learning curve.

Is this complex? Yes. Will I ever really get it? Hopefully but no guarantee. But am I enjoying the experience? Yes 100%.

My advice fwiw, if you can afford to write off if it proves a mistake, then it is definitely a game worth taking a chance on.




First_Contact_Gamer -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/12/2021 8:34:46 PM)

I don’t think it will be “beyond “ you. With your background there is plenty of evidence you would be comfortable learning the game. I would say give it a shot and go into it knowing it will take a few days to feel like you’re really in the groove.

As for where to start I would suggest the tutorial scenarios, they are really helpful to not overwhelm you and let’s you feel more comfortable with the AI. I’d also suggest your first “full theater” scenario as the Soviet’s in Stalingrad to Berlin. You get to be the dominant side, start with a very stable front, and enough industry and manpower to make some mistakes without it critical consequences. Playing as the Germans, in any scenario, you will often find a couple of missteps with some panzer divisions can be really tough to recover from.

Also, I may be biased, but would strongly suggest some YouTube of let’s plays. Less so for learning mechanics but more so to get an idea of how different folks apply structure to each turn in how they think through everything. Scale is one of the greatest challenges to pick the game up and that can be solved with introducing some of your own structure in approach.

Hope you give it a shot and fall in love with it as so many of us have!

(As an aside, out of all the GG games I have found WItE2 the most welcoming because of the UI and AI assist options)



Rattiratto -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/12/2021 10:57:59 PM)

My personal experience coming to this game as my first fully fledged grog title:

Since most of the tasks can be automated, the entry barrier is not that huge - you will find starting enjoying your advance/retreat just in a few days, even without knowing how to do things (I ignored the air war and let the AI handle it for at least a month)

As soon as realize that there are some things you want to improve over the AI routines, you can start dive deeper and fine tune it to your liking. And oh boy what a games it becomes then!



MarkShot -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/13/2021 6:39:23 AM)

I do like the idea of automating. I am not terribly fond of micro-management, and that is part of the reason I was drawn to this GG release being the newest.

Also, even at $79 (I will get 50% off), it somehow seems like an uber-bargain compared PDS $400 USD for bug fixes and unit skins.

How is replay? Do GG games have user made campaigns/operations/scenarios?

Thanks.



First_Contact_Gamer -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/13/2021 7:45:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I do like the idea of automating. I am not terribly fond of micro-management, and that is part of the reason I was drawn to this GG release being the newest.

Also, even at $79 (I will get 50% off), it somehow seems like an uber-bargain compared PDS $400 USD for bug fixes and unit skins.

How is replay? Do GG games have user made campaigns/operations/scenarios?

Thanks.

I would rate replay-ability quite high for 3 reasons:
1. Yes there are user made scenarios and mods. For example I believe a decent sized one endsieg has already been published for WITE2 and more will follow as the community has time. If I recall correctly work on the editor will follow the post release bug fixes by the devs.

2. The support and community for H2H play via PBEM means you will always have a human opponent that creates a challenge unique that you likely won't find against an AI and they've made this really quite easy to leverage.

3. Because of the VAST scale of the game the longer scenarios often don't feel repetitive. Because of the number of decisions made in each turn combined with how many turns exist mean each playthrough will develop slightly differently.



MarkShot -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/15/2021 5:42:32 PM)

I was looking at WITE + DLC.

It looks like if it mirrors V1, then it will be 3 years before content is complete. Is that what others think?

Will there be enough with the base game to keep me busy?



carlkay58 -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/16/2021 12:54:36 AM)

The 41 Campaign alone is sufficient to keep you busy for years. Every play will be different depending on your moves in each game.



GloriousRuse -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/16/2021 3:24:30 AM)

Re: content.

If you take an H2H game the distance at 3 turns a week, that one game will take you a year and a half to play out, and you’ll probably be putting in 5+ hours weekly for those turns.

If you go a turn a day with the odd gap for holidays and such - and to be clear, if you’re the average adult that’s anywhere from a lot to all of your free time on a given day - you’ll spend close to eight months on that one game.

Even a game that ends mid ‘42 is a multimonth affair, and a vs AI game played at maximum turn rate is still weeks and weeks.

And if you drop to a leisurely 1-2 turns a week, you might only have played a few games in three years.



First_Contact_Gamer -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/16/2021 3:25:39 AM)

Also just because the WITE DLC took a couple years does not mean you will have no new content. The community will be contributing mods and scenarios to play. If you're interested in the game, there is plenty of content for years. As evident by each Gary Grigsby games having a hardcore following many years after release. Look no further then WITP:AE for an example of that.



dray67 -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/29/2021 7:01:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I understand ground combat (tactical, operational, and strategic).

WWII games familiar with CMx2, MIUS/TWT/GTOS, HOI4, Panther Games(all), ...

But I have never played any uber-grog TBS operational war game (except Panther {uber but not TBS}; was actually a team member). This means, I have never played any title by Gary.

I have downloaded the manual, and plan to check out the resources page.

I am retired and I do have time (or, at least, I like to believe so).

So, should I consider this title? I know I am not learning it in one night, but I don't want to find that a year has gone by and I am still just reading and have yet to play a game. (Because I do take graduate classes as a retirement hobby ... so, I would be purchasing this as a game, as opposed to trying to find something more mind bending than Quantum Mechanics.)

Thanks.

PS: Some of you probably know me. Now, be nice. These forums are supposed to be family friendly! :)


If you're retired I'm assuming 55+, probably 60+, I'm 54 and in the past I was an avid ASL player for the most part but I loved the large campaigns and playing games built around them, especially if the scale was small by comparison, I owned Wacht Am Rhein, Wellingtons Victory, The Campaign for North Africa, and GDW's Fire in the East, though I never played to completion North Africa or even started Fire in the East, time and space at the time I owned them was just too tight, now as digital wargaming is enjoying a moment in the sun (long may it continue) I'm finding more and more games that just hit the mark for me, if you even looked at these types of games and felt an itch you needed to scratch then go for it.

I owned WitE and WitW for quite a bit of time before I dove into them, WitE is definitely the more enjoyable and accessible of the two, WitW can be a bit of a slog because of the map size and the restrictions in western Europe , where as WitE has lots of room to manoevre and is an overall, in my opinion, better experience for learning the game, I have purchased WitE 2 and I'm reading through the manual at the moment before I jump in though I suspect I will be losing some serious hours in the autumn playing it.

Looking at the games you listed in your post they are not that similar but I still feel you might get a lot out of WitE or WitE2, maybe pick up WitE in a sale and see what you think, either way I can't think of a good reason to say no to your question given your circumstances.

Also given the games you listed I would also take a look at Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm, a digital game using the WEGO system that is for me the closest I've come to the old GDW Assault series of board games, or Armoured Brigade, though they are modern they are closer to your tastes than WitE, but I'd still say take the plunge on it.



MarkShot -> RE: Is this going to be beyond me? (6/30/2021 12:57:43 AM)

I have it for a while and like it.

Thanks.



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