How to play Italy? (Full Version)

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EUBanana -> How to play Italy? (6/21/2021 12:41:07 PM)

I've only played this game solitaire so far, which is fun as far as it goes but it does mean I can't develop my game much beyond learning how it plays.

I try and play without favouring one side or another, but whatever happens Italy seems to be absolutely murdered by the Commonwealth. I'm playing a game at the moment where an early aggressive Italy focused on the Commonwealth and declaring war early managed to take the Suez Canal. But Malta and Gibraltar, with garrisons from the start almost, were beyond Italy's powers.

Now the Commonwealth have armour in Palestine and five aircraft carriers in the Med, and plenty else, and Italy is definitely losing the ability to supply it's troops in Africa at an incredible rate. It looks like there's only one way this is going to go to the point that when I'm playing Italy I kinda gave up on the troops in Africa for six months, they were holding the Suez Canal while the CW built up and sure enough eventually the moment came when CW armour breached the canal with Blenheim support. Italy meanwhile has been deploying forces in Bulgaria for a land assault on Greece purely to make some headway somewhere.

I prioritised building the Sparvieros and even bought an Italian aircraft carrier to no avail. Germany in this game took out France relatively early and had Yugoslavia, Poland, Denmark, France, Norway and aligned Hungary and Bulgaria by summer 41. In spare moments they were aggressive with their navy and challenged the CW.

It all seems to be to no avail though and Italy is destined to be buried under hundreds of blue counters. Is this just how it is? what do people usually do with Italy? It's obviously a bit harder playing solitaire but the UK itself is well garrisoned as Germany has an AMPH, a marine, and paras in position to threaten a Sealion at any point in time so it's not like defence of the UK itself has been neglected by focus on the Med.

I think the Japanese are going to push hard into India/Australia as a result of the CW being pretty empty east of Suez (taking the canal early pretty much did that on its own) but I'm sure the US will be in a position to make taking Australia hard.



Centuur -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/21/2021 3:47:54 PM)

To be honest, you are doing good with Italy. Taking the Suez Canal is something which usually only happens if the CW has been sloppy in defending Egypt.

Supply problems in the Med? Join the club! It's not unusual at all for Italy. If the CW is building cheap land units, FTR's, HQ's and convoy points, the CW can come back.

The only exception is, if Germany attacks Spain for an attack on Gibraltar. That makes the Med an Italian lake... But it looks like Germany is going for the USSR.

Keep up the good work. Accept that the Italians are not having the initiative and defend as good as you can. If the CW doesn't pay attention to the Far East, that's a good thing for the Axis. The Imperial forces of Japan will be able to attack at will when war starts. It's very difficult for the CW to send units back to India in time if they keep up the pressure in the Middle East.



alexvand -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/21/2021 8:55:19 PM)

Fascinating how different our games are. I always end up with Italy as a beast! Germany gives them lots of resources and some BPs too. They build out their navs and the CW fleet gets butchered. (German condors and FW-190s help here too.)

Time and time again I have had allied invasion fleets savaged by the German and Italian air sitting in the 2 box. My most recent game the Italians will be the last axis standing because they hold Gibraltar and Suez and the Alps make a formidable barrier.



michaelbaldur -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/21/2021 9:46:06 PM)


I always play Italy defensively, more or less just give up Africa, and concentrate on holding the home land.

the CW fleet is bigger then yours in any way, they have better production, and units. so you are going to loss Africa.

but Italy surrenders so f... easy, so you need to hold all the ports in Italy. if you loose your army in Africa, you just lost



CanInf -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/21/2021 9:47:41 PM)

yes, I agree with alexvand. The italians can be beasts, but only if allowed. The primary objective of the CW early on is to cripple Italy, maintain air dominance in the med, and if Germany goes all out for Gibraltar at least hold Suez. The CW simply must build any and all long range FTRs they have and the ones they can get via lend lease. if the FTR has a range below 4 and can be shipped to the USSR, it goes into the Soviet Force pool and stops polluting yours. Notable early FTR requirements include the buffalo from the USA (7 range!) and any of the P-40s They can grab. As Alexvand noted the Axis can fight viciously from teh 2 box (darn that He 100).
from the Axis perspective, I have a preference for taking Gibraltar even at enormous expanse on other fronts and particularly if France falls early or very late. A good Barbaraso is glorious, but so is sucking resources out of the Med, and Italy's force pool in the mid and late game.



EUBanana -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/21/2021 11:34:41 PM)

I just find the Sparviero's can't get through the wall of carrier air that the CW can bring to the party - there doesn't seem to be much reason for any CW carriers to be outside the Med in 1940. I kept the two 1 pointer carriers for sojourns into the Faeroes or North Sea on occasion and the rest set up shop in the Med. With Swordfish and a Whirlwind in Malta to protect the lower boxes, and constant hassling of Italian convoys with submarines (I like the Dutch ones for this) off Italy itself. The carrier air doesn't have very good stats but with enough surprise points they do, and they are usually in the 4 boxes.

My current game had Italy immediately ship over armoured units to Africa and just smash all the way up to Suez before the Commonwealth could really do anything - there were some lucky rolls though, not guaranteed by any means. Then their supplies were interdicted quite heavily so after conquering Egypt they couldn't really progress. I built the Egyptian territorials so at least those guys could provide some defence.

Eventually the Italians just get whittled down every time. When the US can repair CW ships then an avalanche of counters hits the Med soon after.

I've not had Germany hit Spain yet, that's no doubt worth a shot, especially if Suez falls quickly like in my current game.



brian brian -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/22/2021 1:58:36 AM)

Italy is fun to play. In my first ever game of World in Flames I gave them a try. I built transports to start, so my glorious Legions would be able to sail the 7 Seas picking up riches to bring home. Then, the Royal Navy arrived and my dreams crashed into reality pretty quick.

The only Power for whom land combat rolls are more consequential is probably China, though they are wise to avoid making them until at least the middle of the game. Italy certainly can be played like that as well, and profitably, but that’s just not as fun as attacking something.

In all of WiF though, one has to play to the game system. And WiF greatly rewards using aircraft at sea. Building out a NAV force pool can reap rewards from the dice more than other unit build choices - such as building CVs for Italy. I like to do that once in a while, but it is a choice of optimism. An Italian CV is only cost-effective after (and, IF) the Axis take Gibraltar or Suez. Inside the Med, those 7 Build Points could have instead put 2 FTRs in the air for Italy, and that would gain you a lot more.

Even though Italy starts with just a 2/3 chance of drawing a FTR that can reach the 2 box, they do get more such FTRs in future years. And if they lose their initial longer-range FTR in combat, it us worth rebuilding. Because eventually the Royal Navy’s bi-plane carrier fighters and few twin engine fighters will get jumped by modern Axis monoplane fighters without benefits of surprise, and the Allies can find themselves with little-or-none in the way of naval air cover in the Med for multiple turns at a time.

Astute Axis aircraft builds can lead some Allies to temporarily cede the Med to the Axis (a mistake, however), as they are too afraid to lose units (they shouldn’t be).

But the balance of power in the Med, and thus Italy’s strategic freedom, hangs on their air force more than anything.


As for what can keep the CW from loading up the Med with all of their CVs, that would be: U-boats. And Italian SUBs. If you don’t push on your enemy in their area, that frees up their assets to come to your area. So after NAV & FTR, SUBs help Italy a lot. And not just in terms of how many ships the Royal Navy sends in to the Med, but also how they use their action limits. If they have to take additional naval impulses in a turn largely to re-organize convoy points, that is less mischief Monty can make on land.

But the Germans need Panzers in Russia (notably absent from the OP’s narrative), and they need their own action limits to drive those Panzers, so Italy will always have a need to do more with less. And thus their build choices are critical.



EUBanana -> RE: How to play Italy? (6/22/2021 9:00:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
But the Germans need Panzers in Russia (notably absent from the OP’s narrative), and they need their own action limits to drive those Panzers, so Italy will always have a need to do more with less. And thus their build choices are critical.


Germany in this game is being quite historical and aiming for Barbarossa. Most of their builds were in land-2 bombers, fighters, and armour/mechanised/motorised. They did build a marine as well though for opportunities.

They aren't really directly helping Italy much beyond giving them resources. Italy has about 8 BP a turn and the oil situation is sort of manageable if they don't go wild, 2 points of oil a turn.



Zeckke -> RE: How to play Italy? (8/15/2021 2:13:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
But the Germans need Panzers in Russia (notably absent from the OP’s narrative), and they need their own action limits to drive those Panzers, so Italy will always have a need to do more with less. And thus their build choices are critical.


Germany in this game is being quite historical and aiming for Barbarossa. Most of their builds were in land-2 bombers, fighters, and armour/mechanised/motorised. They did build a marine as well though for opportunities.

They aren't really directly helping Italy much beyond giving them resources. Italy has about 8 BP a turn and the oil situation is sort of manageable if they don't go wild, 2 points of oil a turn.


the game is quite historical as you said but Italy is the key for thouse panzers at barbarrosa



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