Close Assault Resolution Question (Full Version)

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Niwotian60 -> Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 9:44:42 AM)

The manual and in-game help don't seem to fully describe the resolution of close assaults. I understand the calculation of the ratio and kill number but after the dice roll the game assigns casualties to both sides based on an apparently undocumented table or calculation. Where do these casualty numbers come from? Are they deterministic or randomly assigned?



StayAlive -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 12:50:21 PM)

A successful assault completely eliminates the defenders, but the assaulting units suffer one Casualty Point per terrain modifier (+2 Woods would yield 2 CPs) and one CP per unpinned unit assaulted (two squads and a leader would yield 3 CPs). In a failed assault the defender suffers one CP per assaulting unit, and the assaulting units suffer one CP per factor that the dice roll failed, plus one CP per terrain modifier, plus one CP per defending unit.

Hope this is correct, and helps!



Gerry4321 -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 1:32:53 PM)

That's a really interesting way of doing it. As in, not just the odds. I thought in some game systems that it was unrealistic when a half-squad could wipe out two squads. It makes sense to take into account the terrain and number of assaulting/defending units.



StayAlive -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 1:50:25 PM)

Same here -- I always questioned the "all or nothing" approach of close assaults in a lot of old school games. It never made a lot of sense to me that one or both sides could essentially walk away unscathed.



baloo7777 -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 3:47:07 PM)

It certainly is a deadly way to resolve Close Assaults. I have lost many attacking units in 2-1 attacks. It seems in V&V the best way to close assault is by not doing it unless enough units are available for a 3-1, and since it can only be from a single hex stack at a time, must be 3 squads vs 1 squad (after considering pinned units don't count in defenders hex). For better or worse, this should prevent close assaults from being used often (except when far outnumbering the defenders).



MrsWargamer -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 4:41:15 PM)

I had not delved into the stats and mechanics prior to this thread.

Now I understand why close combat ends immediately, and why I seem to lose even when I win :)



Niwotian60 -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 6:15:34 PM)

Thanks, StayAlive. I tried to figure out where the numbers came from, but I think it's fair to say I would have never puzzled this one out. But I do like the system; men less than 20m from each other shooting rifles, pistols, lobbing grenades, satchel charges and anything else they can find absolutely should bloody both sides.



jwarrenw13 -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 6:37:10 PM)

Yes, you have to be careful with assaults unless the enemy is pinned or you have a big strength advantage, or you have to take that objective or kill that stack on the last turn to win the game, and then you just go for it.



baloo7777 -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 7:03:50 PM)

In one of Rico's custom scenarios, I was able to get a Brit full squad in woods next to the Tiger Tank and close assault and took it out to my surprise... several other squads either took casualties or were eliminated in the rushing of the tiger (and only after the ATG was pinned). It gave the feeling of the desperation of troops having seen all but 1 of their tank support destroyed. Very satisfying last turn as the Tiger occupied the single victory hex and it felt like snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Great scenario and a good game experience.



DingBat -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/22/2021 7:21:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Niwotian60

Thanks, StayAlive. I tried to figure out where the numbers came from, but I think it's fair to say I would have never puzzled this one out. But I do like the system; men less than 20m from each other shooting rifles, pistols, lobbing grenades, satchel charges and anything else they can find absolutely should bloody both sides.


The close combat rules are a little complicated. I tried to describe them simply in the manual but there's always room for improvement.



JonJonJon -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/23/2021 11:16:32 AM)

Is troop quality factored in?



joeyeti -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/23/2021 12:10:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JonJonJon

Is troop quality factored in?

No, Troop quality is not present in the game (other than say German and US troops having slightly different numbers on the counters).



StayAlive -> RE: Close Assault Resolution Question (6/23/2021 1:15:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonJonJon

Is troop quality factored in?


Not in close assaults, at least not in a direct way -- as Joe mentioned above highly trained, veteran, or Elite units typically have better counter stats than regular troops. They typically have higher firepower values and Casualty Ratings, and both help in the assault. Not related to assaults, but pinned Elite infantry units also have a better chance of rallying at the end of their turn.



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