Best way for Germany to invade Spain (Full Version)

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EUBanana -> Best way for Germany to invade Spain (6/25/2021 9:42:46 AM)

If Germany wants to go for Gibraltar, what's the best way to do it?

Do you Vichify France or not, I guess is the big question. You would be forced to attack along a very narrow strip if you want to have a Vichy France, and I imagine if you don't that's actually a bit of a penalty keeping France from turning into Free France. So which is generally the preferred way to do it?

Also aren't all the mountains in Spain going to be quite a problem?



Courtenay -> RE: Best way for Germany to invade Spain (6/25/2021 6:20:11 PM)

I don't think it is possible to attack Spain with Vichy France in existence; the Spanish have enough forces to really slow down the Germans on such a narrow front. They do NOT have enough forces to stop a German attack all along the border.

So then question arises as to how to get the full Spanish border. There are two ways to do it: an incomplete conquest of France (or French surrender), or first Vichy and then collapse Vichy.

If you can pull the first off quickly, great. However, competent Allied play should prevent that from happening, barring horrendous luck. The second gives you a double US entry hit. However, the two extra US entry chits into the pool are 1940 chits, the worst in the game.
And declaring Vichy and then collapsing it is much faster than going for surrender, and the early game for the Axis is all about speed.

I have seen the collapse strategy work; I have also seen the US get ridiculously lucky on Entry chits and come into the war in the middle of '41. I have seen the conquer France strategy work, but that has been the result of poor Allied play. I have never seen anyone even attempt to invade Spain just from Occupied France with a neutral Vichy.



Centuur -> RE: Best way for Germany to invade Spain (6/26/2021 11:34:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I don't think it is possible to attack Spain with Vichy France in existence; the Spanish have enough forces to really slow down the Germans on such a narrow front. They do NOT have enough forces to stop a German attack all along the border.

So then question arises as to how to get the full Spanish border. There are two ways to do it: an incomplete conquest of France (or French surrender), or first Vichy and then collapse Vichy.

If you can pull the first off quickly, great. However, competent Allied play should prevent that from happening, barring horrendous luck. The second gives you a double US entry hit. However, the two extra US entry chits into the pool are 1940 chits, the worst in the game.
And declaring Vichy and then collapsing it is much faster than going for surrender, and the early game for the Axis is all about speed.

I have seen the collapse strategy work; I have also seen the US get ridiculously lucky on Entry chits and come into the war in the middle of '41. I have seen the conquer France strategy work, but that has been the result of poor Allied play. I have never seen anyone even attempt to invade Spain just from Occupied France with a neutral Vichy.


The double US entry chit hit for Vichy and the collapse of it next turn is usually the only way to do this. I've never seen Germany conquer France in time for an attack on Spain, especially if the French put a big stack in Toulouse (which is a fortress hex in itself, being in the mountains and protected by rivers, making a German attack on the hex almost impossible).
Of course, you need to build the right units to attack Gib. MAR and PARA are needed.



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