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rkr1958 -> RE: 6-Player Friendly PBEM Global War (11/12/2021 9:00:30 PM)
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Turn 17. May/June 1942. The Western Front. Allied #7. Vichy & Italian FTC.
17.4. RUNNING VICHY FRANCE
ACCESS TO VICHY TERRITORY
No Axis units may enter Vichy controlled hexes while Vichy France is neutral (except to collapse her administration, see below). While Vichy France is active, only units belonging to the major power which installed Vichy France may enter Vichy controlled administration groups, and even then must satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2) to enter each administration group.
If Vichy France is active and hostile to any major power, units controlled by the major power that installed the Vichy government can enter any Vichy controlled hex without having to satisfy the foreign troop commitment limits.
VICHY FRENCH COLLAPSE
If an Allied unit enters Metropolitan Vichy France before it has collapsed:
* Axis units can enter Metropolitan Vichy France without causing a collapse; and
* Vichy units no longer test their loyalty prior
Based on internal discussion among the six of us and what we've seen discussed on the forum we've come to the following understanding of axis units in Metropolitan Vichy.
(1) German units may enter Vichy without FTC limits because: (a) Germany installed Vichy, (b) Vichy is active and (c) Vichy is hostile (to the CW & USA).
(2) Italian (and even Japanese) controlled units may enter Metropolitan Vichy because both CW and US units have entered Vichy. What's not spelled out is whether or not FTC limits apply.
(3) MWiF is not enforcing FTC limits wrt/Italy. Whether or not this is intentional I do not know. The consensus in this thread so far appears that FTC limits in case (2) should apply. However; in reading through the rules I see a case where they shouldn't.
(a) For example under the section, "Access to Vichy Territory -- While Vichy France is active, only units belonging to the major power which installed Vichy France may enter Vichy controlled administration groups, and even then must satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2) to enter each administration group." This clearly spells out that FTC applies in this case.
(b) Now under the section, "VICHY FRENCH COLLAPSE -- If an Allied unit enters Metropolitan Vichy France before it has collapsed: * Axis units can enter Metropolitan Vichy France without causing a collapse".
(c) One could/might infer that since FTC was mentioned in (a) but not in (b) then FTC doesn't apply in (b), which appears to be how MWiF is coded (intentional or not I dare not guess). So, whether or not there's a bug in MWiF wrt/(b) I guess is up to the beta testers, forum users and Steve to decide?
(4) What I don't believe is in doubt is that the 2 shattered Italian units should have not been destroyed because there was a valid retreat path, albeit through Metropolitan Vichy controlled hexes.
Our group has unanimously agreed to the following wrt/Axis units in Metropolitan Vichy France.
(1) The Italian HQ-A (Graziani) and II Mtn corps that were destroyed even through they had a valid retreat through Metropolitan Vichy hexes will be "shattered" instead through the magic of editing (If applicable, will do the same for any future land combat).
(2) Italian units will be allowed access to Metropolitan Vichy France without FTC limits, which (rightly or wrongly) is how MWiF is currently coded.
[image]local://upfiles/31901/0DC2BD1611064895BBAEB98167DCCF8E.jpg[/image]
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