Line of Sight in urban areas.

Line of Sight in urban areas. (Full Version)

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mmacguinness -> Line of Sight in urban areas. (7/4/2021 12:14:30 PM)
How is this supposed to work in AB, because in practice, it seems to be very unrealistic. For example, in downtown European areas, with buildings typically two to four floors, it is impossible to see anything but the street and the buildings facing it. Occasionally, if you are directly in front of an alley or small street, you can see into a very small part of the next street. Even going into the upper floors of buildings to get a height advantage virtually never gives a line of sight to street level in another street, nor do the upper floors of a building on a higher elevation, unless the street is directly lined up with it. Suburban areas have lower buildings, but similarly restricted sight lines in reality. Yet in AB, units routinely fire at enemy units 1, 2, 3 or even more streets away. I get it that the depiction of buildings is an abstraction. But even in the US mid-West, South Africa and Australia where suburban houses are far more widely spaced than in Europe, sightlines to adjoining streets are impossible because the spaces between houses are filled with sheds, trees, bushes, fences, hedges, etc., etc., etc.

Veitikka -> RE: Line of Sight in urban areas. (7/4/2021 11:38:02 PM)
In the current game units are always lifted to the roof level of the building they enter. As a result, if there's an identical building that's on a slightly lower ground elevation then it's possible that a unit can see whatever is behind the building, at the same level horizontally. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that the unit can see the street right behind it. That would probably require a significant difference in terrain elevation. You can use the LOS Profile tool to see how it works exactly. In the sequel there will likely be a bit different mechanism for this. Units should enter a position that's below the highest point in the building cell. Ideally they should be allowed to enter any floor in a building, but then we should think of how it would work in the UI without increasing the amount of micromanagement, and how to not give another advantage for the player against the AI (which micromanagement options usually do).

mmacguinness -> RE: Line of Sight in urban areas. (7/5/2021 8:45:27 AM)
OK, so infantry is treated as if always on the roof. That does need to be changed. However, when not under fire, infantry advances at street level. When under fire, infantry moves within buildings, and from building to building either through holes in walls or using available cover between them. Fair point about micromanagement, and AB is not and probably cannot be optimised for urban combat: I don't think there is any benefit to explicitly dealing with muliple floors in buildings, except to add a roof level for use as OP. Otherwise, attacks and defense of buildings should be whole building affairs. Floor by floor fights would be too tedious, and AB doesn't have a melee/hand-to-hand/close combat mode for opposing units in the same grid square.

Perturabo -> RE: Line of Sight in urban areas. (7/30/2021 11:40:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mmacguinness Fair point about micromanagement, and AB is not and probably cannot be optimised for urban combat: I don't think there is any benefit to explicitly dealing with muliple floors in buildings, except to add a roof level for use as OP. Otherwise, attacks and defense of buildings should be whole building affairs. Floor by floor fights would be too tedious, and AB doesn't have a melee/hand-to-hand/close combat mode for opposing units in the same grid square. Which is a big problem taking into account that built up or urban areas are large part of maps.

mmacguinness -> RE: Line of Sight in urban areas. (9/1/2021 1:07:31 AM)
Is it really such a problem? Wasn't doctrine in the 80's to avoid urban fights? So urban fights would have been the exception? Except maybe for cities? Given the Soviet emphasis on speed, avoidance of urban fights may not have been the smartest. Holding towns like Bad Hersfeld, even if bypassed, couldn't have failed to slow the Soviets. At a minimum, it would suck reinforcements needed at the front and reduce momentum. On the other hand, if anyone were to have invaded the USSR, I cannot imagine the Sovs giving up a single village without a fight. Well, maybe a small one, but not a reasonable sized town.

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