Time committment (Full Version)

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ggeilman -> Time committment (7/7/2021 6:27:52 PM)

I am considering purchase. Realistically, how many hours does it take to do a turn?



Alfred -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 6:42:52 PM)

Entirely up to you. Some spend only 15 minutes or so, others spend 3-4 hours.

There are many things which can be done to reduce the micromanagement but very few players avail themselves of these aids, and then some complain of too much micromanagement.

Alfred



btd64 -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 6:46:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

I am considering purchase. Realistically, how many hours does it take to do a turn?



This varies wheather or not it is your first turn in a GC or in a lull in the middle of the war. I have had turns go from 30 minuites to as much as 2 days. The more experience you gain the fast you can do turns. There is a steep learning cliff. But the game is very rewarding....GP



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 6:46:37 PM)

Depends - the opening turn for the Japanese side can actually take several days if you want to set everything in motion on Day 1 - 6 to 12 hours for the first turn are not unusual. But once you have sorted out things and established your logistical network, a turn without major operations under way can be done in under an hour.

Btw, the nickname of AE is "This time vampyre of a game"



dr.hal -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 6:49:14 PM)

The simple response is that there is no accurate response. There are many factors that would have to be considered before one could estimate how much time a turn takes. Broadly speaking, the first factor is the player, is he/she a control freak or someone who allows the game to do much of the work (auto convoys, auto searches, etc.)? Second, which side is one playing? The Japanese player also must handle the economy, which, if micro managed can consume time. Third is what timeframe is the game being played? Is it an initial move or early on in the war, here the Japanese player has LOTS to do? Is it later in the war, when the Allies get lots of toys? Finally what are the learning characteristics of the player in question, this being YOU! Are you a quick study? Will you get the drift of the game (love those nautical analogies) quickly? Within these broadly based questions are lots of other aspects that might need to be considered, the devil is in the details and that's something that WITP AE has LOTS OF; details. So in truth there is no right answer to the question you put forth without a lot of qualifying information. Generally speaking the first few moves are the longest, which might mean many hours. Once the player knows the system, an hour or two would do it (this would be amplified one way or the other by the other qualifiers). But time is only ONE consideration in getting this game, as I'm sure you are aware. I think it helps if you really like history and in particular the Pacific theater of operations in WW2. But almost all on the site think it money VERY well spent. Hope this is as clear as mud. Hal



WEXF -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 7:25:55 PM)

I have to suggest that for a new player the first few turns could actually take up to many days to complete for either the Allies or Japan.
If you want to take notes on what you expect to happen during the next week or month and try to figure out what the other side is going to do, you could spend days going over the possibilities.
WITP-AE has lots of levels to it. Do you want to know which Chinese infantry units have 37mm ATG so that they could be used to block Japanese armor advancing on roads? Or do you want to know which Chinese units have the ability to have 45mm ATG (there are only a few)? If you care about the details the time it takes to do a turn gets longer but the reward is greater. The key is to find another player that cares about things the way you do.
WEXF



Kull -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 7:27:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Broadly speaking, the first factor is the player


It's really this. If you have some level of OCD there's almost no limit to how much time can be spent on a given turn. Review every pilot in training every turn and swap out high skill trainees with lower skill frontline guys? Sure! Check all your frontline air units every turn for excessive airframe fatigue and cycle them in out of stand-down mode so as to reduce Ops losses? Definitely! Build a giant spreadsheet with all the in-game unit commanders (air/sea/land) and constantly check their skill against those in the leader pools so you can swap in better ones every turn (within the limits imposed by your "political point" reserve)? Of course! Tweak your submarine patrol zones every turn because, well, you can? Who wouldn't?

Rest modes, ship repairs, air search zones, fuel and supply levels at all 800+ bases, aligning weather forecasts with planned air ops, the list goes on and on and on. One week of diligent, almost round-the-clock attention to each individual turn? With this game? Easily possible. Is that actually necessary? Well, no.

Because, conversely, if you play against the Japanese AI, you could literally ignore every Allied national force except the US, follow the American island hopping model, and still pull off a victory in 1944/45 that would play out pretty darn close to the historical result. But, but, but....the Dutch, English, ANZACs!!!??? What about them? Don't touch a thing...don't even LOOK at one of their units, ever. In fact, even for the US you don't need ANY pilot training or air search or ASW patrols or new leaders, or really almost anything except to do all the ops things necessary in the specific areas which are part of your overall conquest plan. Follow this model and you can probably whip out 5-10 turns a day, probably less during a major operation. Is that also fun? Well, maybe.

The point is that you can go whole hog on the minutiae with this game or keep an extremely light hand on the reins, and each approach can be successful in the end. But as the man once said, "it's the journey, not the destination", and that my friend, is up to you.



dr.hal -> RE: Time committment (7/7/2021 8:08:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
But as the man once said, "it's the journey, not the destination", and that my friend, is up to you.

Well said Kull.



geofflambert -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 12:40:57 PM)

Everything Kull said until you get an opponent other than the AI. The AI doesn't care how long you take but gorns and romulans and humans will. So pick your opponents wisely. If you can't be reliable and regular pick an opponent like that. Your opponent becomes the game. If he or it or they can't return turns fast enough for you, maybe start another game with another similar opponent simultaneously. If for some reason you insist upon playing a ferengi, make sure it's a female, the males are useless.



btd64 -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 1:05:53 PM)

You said Ferengi, ha ha ha ha ha ha 😂😆😄🤣....GP



BBfanboy -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 1:48:58 PM)

So gorns, romulans and humans care how long you are - but what about the Kardashians?



CrackingShow -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 3:13:12 PM)

How much of the air war can be automated? I'm not interested in setting up the naval air searches.



HansBolter -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 3:45:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrackingShow

How much of the air war can be automated? I'm not interested in setting up the naval air searches.



None and all.

To set up Naval Air searches you assign that order to a squadron of planes capable of performing that function.
After that the squadron AUTOMATICALLY flies that mission day in and day out until you assign different orders or all planes have been lost or worn out and moved into maintenance.

What is so complicated and tedious in that operation that you don't want to perform it?

If you are looking for ways to dislike the game, I am sure you can find many.



ggeilman -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 5:40:37 PM)

After spending 50 years playing operational European theatre games this would be quite a change for me. Honestly, WarPlan Pacific has me looking for something more. 4200 lines just for setup? I am not as young as I used to be, lol!



rustysi -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 8:17:39 PM)

Most of us aren't.[:)]



rustysi -> RE: Time committment (7/8/2021 8:21:10 PM)

quote:

but what about the Kardashians?


Another topic that shouldn't be mentioned in these parts. What a bunch of nothing!!!!![:@]

Good news, I heard the show is going off air.[sm=happy0065.gif][sm=00000436.gif][sm=party-smiley-012.gif][sm=happy0005.gif]



BBfanboy -> RE: Time committment (7/9/2021 2:54:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

but what about the Kardashians?


Another topic that shouldn't be mentioned in these parts. What a bunch of nothing!!!!![:@]

Good news, I heard the show is going off air.[sm=happy0065.gif][sm=00000436.gif][sm=party-smiley-012.gif][sm=happy0005.gif]

I was making a tongue-in-cheek spelling twist on the Star Trek Cardassians ... but I suspected it would get some shots at that strange and infamous family! [:D]



HansBolter -> RE: Time committment (7/9/2021 2:31:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

After spending 50 years playing operational European theatre games this would be quite a change for me. Honestly, WarPlan Pacific has me looking for something more. 4200 lines just for setup? I am not as young as I used to be, lol!



Most of us have similar experience and are of ripe old vintage as well.

Kull probably said it best.

You can get by issuing minimal orders every day, you can even set up multiple day turns to minimize the input required of you, OR, you can dive as deeply into the rabbit hole as suits your fancy...........

The database is immense, gargantuan actually, allowing one to delve to one's heart's content.



rustysi -> RE: Time committment (7/10/2021 5:08:09 AM)

OK, getting back to topic (for me at least) the game has a 'learning cliff', and is a real 'time vampire'. That's in a nutshell.



ggeilman -> RE: Time committment (7/18/2021 11:46:40 PM)

Well, you all talked me into giving it a try. I am working my way through the spreadsheet of Kull's. Doing the West Coast of the US now. I figure another two week or so to finish the setup. Many thanks for all his hard work and also to Strategy Gaming Dojo's tutorials in helping with some basic understanding of the game.



Platoonist -> RE: Time committment (7/19/2021 12:34:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

Well, you all talked me into giving it a try. I am working my way through the spreadsheet of Kull's. Doing the West Coast of the US now. I figure another two week or so to finish the setup. Many thanks for all his hard work and also to Strategy Gaming Dojo's tutorials in helping with some basic understanding of the game.


Enjoy your stay. [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/9147/AA7AA1DFE4B948AE9EAC3131CE687392.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Time committment (7/19/2021 12:56:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

Well, you all talked me into giving it a try. I am working my way through the spreadsheet of Kull's. Doing the West Coast of the US now. I figure another two week or so to finish the setup. Many thanks for all his hard work and also to Strategy Gaming Dojo's tutorials in helping with some basic understanding of the game.


Seriously, do not try the Grand Campaign first. Use the Coral Sea as a training campaign, then the Guadalcanal campaign.



RangerJoe -> RE: Time committment (7/19/2021 1:17:14 AM)

Here are a couple of threads to read through with advice for the Coral Sea and the Guadalcanal scenarios.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4935973&mpage=1&key=randy%2Cstead

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4947044&mpage=1&key=randy%2Cstead




Sardaukar -> RE: Time committment (7/19/2021 6:40:35 AM)

I usually use about 15-20 mins per turn.

Of course turns when I am doing amphibious invasions or first campaign turns take more time.

But with 2-day turns vs. AI, I can often (when day off or vacation) do a month in game time in a day. Of course that is serious commitment of your spare time...[8D]



ITAKLinus -> RE: Time committment (7/20/2021 12:10:38 PM)

Everyone has his or her own pace and it's highly dependent on the opponent and the general approach to the game.

I say that anything between 15min and 2.5hrs is plausible.

If you are organized, you can cut the playing time considerably.

My experience (I play PBEM only):
-JAP Scen01 before June '42 takes roughly 1hr per turn
-JAP Scen01 between June '42 and the end of '43 takes roughly 30min per turn (exceptional situations excluded)
-ALL Scen01 before mid '43 takes 1hr per turn
-ALL Scen01 after mid '43 takes between 1hr and 2hr per turn

These are averages, obviously.

Individually, I have a time allotment of 1hr per turn. Most of my games have a very precise and clearly defined planning and this really cuts the time devoted to each turn.

When you are in the initial Japanese expansion, for example, having a GANTT with the various units and their activities helps a lot.
A very rough initial "feasability study" I did recently for my last PBEM:


[image]local://upfiles/59041/878BC99551214135B894CB5F99476619.jpg[/image]



ggeilman -> RE: Time committment (7/21/2021 4:27:15 AM)

Thanks all. I will probably give the scenarios a try first, but as I am already on India on the setup for the campaign game I might as well finish setting it up:) A little more than 1600 lines to go!



Timotheus -> RE: Time committment (7/22/2021 7:37:03 PM)

Suggest for new players:

1) Coral Sea - literally an hour or two if not less
2) 10,000 mile war - a few hours to a day or two for beginners

edit: Play both as Allies



ggeilman -> RE: Time committment (8/3/2021 4:52:49 AM)

I am on turn 8 and each turn has been taking me at least 10 hours. I still feel like I leave a lot of things undon, even with the spreadsheet.



btd64 -> RE: Time committment (8/3/2021 10:44:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

I am on turn 8 and each turn has been taking me at least 10 hours. I still feel like I leave a lot of things undon, even with the spreadsheet.



It's gonna take what It's gonna take...You're learning so It's ok....GP



Kull -> RE: Time committment (8/3/2021 3:00:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64


quote:

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

I am on turn 8 and each turn has been taking me at least 10 hours. I still feel like I leave a lot of things undon, even with the spreadsheet.



It's gonna take what It's gonna take...You're learning so It's ok....GP


Very good point! Think back on each of those turns. How many of those ten hours did you spend doing things as opposed to figuring things out? Granted there is a lot to do, especially in December when you have so many balls in the air. But each turn that passes, you'll find that you have a growing awareness of what is going on and how to perform the myriad actions necessary to keep it all flowing.



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