[Logged] 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (Full Version)

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p1t1o -> [Logged] 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/7/2021 10:51:06 PM)

All unit doctrine settings have set to "Inherited TIGHT", apparently without exception, regardless of their proper inheritance.

Inheritance is not functioning from side doctrine or assigned mission doctrine. This has been observed in all scenarios including newly created ones.

To reproduce:

load attached save and attempt to change doctrine setting of a unit via the side-doctrine panel or by assigning to mission "test"



**edit**
On some further testing, units were set to "Inherited HOLD" instead, not sure why, I may have changed something during testing or something may have inherited on re-load, but the inheritance problem on the loaded scenarios remained, I was unable to see any change in unit doctrine in response to side or mission-doctrine settings .



RoryAndersonCDT -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/8/2021 5:25:42 AM)

You might have hit the hold fire keyboard shortcut by accident. "A"



Rory Noonan -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/8/2021 2:47:56 PM)

Hey p1t1o,

I'm marking this WAD for now--Rory's explanation is the most likely cause. Let us know if it happens again!



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/8/2021 7:31:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoryAndersonCDT

You might have hit the hold fire keyboard shortcut by accident. "A"


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rory Noonan

Hey p1t1o,

I'm marking this WAD for now--Rory's explanation is the most likely cause. Let us know if it happens again!



Hi guys, thanks for responding.

I think I have ruled out the issue above.
In testing, I have identified the effects of the "A" and "CTRL-A" shortcuts and they do not seem to be involved.
Since yesterday, I have re-downloaded and re-applied the v.28 patch.


I am still seeing some severe issues with the inheritance of RoE doctrine settings, even in pristine, brand-new scenarios like the one attached.

The .scen file is untouched and when I load it, the units in side A do not change their RoE to match the side doctrine.

The .save file has had some brief testing done and includes a mission. When I assign units to this mission, they do not inherit the mission doctrine RoE settings.

I have seen some unusual behaviour where the units will adopt different RoE doctrine settings on load of the scenario, almost as if the inheritance gets "stuck" until the scenario is reloaded (although an exception below).

Note that in the save, BOTH aircraft have RoE doctrine settings that match the mission "test".

For one aircraft, the one assigned to the mission, this is normal - EXCEPT when I last saved the file, it did NOT have those doctrine settings.

And stranger, the OTHER aircraft has also adopted the mission settings - I did not do that and it has not been assigned to the mission.


Regardless of those strange artefacts, the base issue remains: I am still unable to see inherited RoE doctrine settings working - although other doctrine settings such as EMCON appear to inherit just fine.


Are you able to reproduce the behaviour I am seeing? When you load my save, are the side-doctrine settings inherited by the units in side A?
Is it possible I have corrupted something somewhere?


Let me know if I can provide any further files or information or whatever.


Thanks guys,
Pete



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/8/2021 7:42:01 PM)

I have just re-copied over the v.25 Command.exe which I had saved.

Using this exe, when I create a new scenario identical to the one attached above (two sides, A&B, 2 aircraft added to side A over the North Atlantic, nothing else), all RoE settings inherit normally.

---

Copying back the v.28 Command.exe, creating a fresh scenario, the RoE doctrine setting fail to inherit again.



michaelm75au -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/9/2021 10:03:24 AM)

Can you screen shot the different ROE like this? And indicate which is wrong?
When I created a new scenario under .28, it is showing as inherited?

[image]local://upfiles/3086/B8656542D29F4CBD9DB614849CD9830C.jpg[/image]



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/9/2021 3:15:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

Can you screen shot the different ROE like this? And indicate which is wrong?
When I created a new scenario under .28, it is showing as inherited?

[image]local://upfiles/3086/B8656542D29F4CBD9DB614849CD9830C.jpg[/image]


Hi Michael,

See attached screenshots.

To make this I created a fresh scenario (using v.28 exe).

2 units are included in side "A" so that one can click one and then the other to "refresh" anything that needs refreshing. The scenario was also run for a few seconds in case that was needed for any "refresh" of settings.

Screenshot "Capture" shows the units with RoE not matching the displayed "side" RoE.
Screenshot "Capture2" shows a unit assigned to a mission, which has not adopted the displayed mission RoE.


With the v.25 exe, one can watch the RoE settings on a unit change in real-time as you alter the side RoE, these screenshots would not be possible.


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

When I created a new scenario under .28, it is showing as inherited?

[image]local://upfiles/3086/B8656542D29F4CBD9DB614849CD9830C.jpg[/image]


As seen in the screenshots, units do [inaccurately] indicate that their RoE have been "inherited".
Were you able to observe unit-RoE updating in response to side-RoE changes?


Thanks,
Pete



michaelm75au -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/10/2021 2:45:00 AM)

You're referring to the unit panel not reflecting the doctrine changes in .28, rather than doctrine inheritance is not working?



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/10/2021 6:44:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

You're referring to the unit panel not reflecting the doctrine changes in .28, rather than doctrine inheritance is not working?


Im not sure I understand - is there a known v.28 issue with RoE in the unit panel?

From my perspective, whether the unit panel is not reflective of RoE, or if inheritance is truly malfunctioning in my install, the effect is broadly the same - I either cannot tell what a units RoE is, or I cannot control it adequately, both effect kind of "break" inheritance.


Have you been able to reproduce the effects shown in my screenshots?

Would it be worth me doing a complete uninstall/reinstall?

Are there any log files, other saves or anything else that I can provide?



Little anxious as at the moment, my install of CMO is unworkable for my needs (have integrated several features from v.26 & 27 into a very large scenario in final stages so rolling back to v.25 less desirable)



Thanks for your help, much appreciated.
Best,
Pete


***edit***

Do you need me to run some tests to determine, regardless of what the unit panel displays, which doctrine exactly a unit is acting under?



thewood1 -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/10/2021 6:48:12 PM)

Just a tip from the school of hard knocks...

When working with a beta update in larger scenarios I work on, I try not to use features that aren't in the release version. I have been pinched a couple times with that process.



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/10/2021 6:57:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Just a tip from the school of hard knocks...

When working with a beta update in larger scenarios I work on, I try not to use features that aren't in the release version. I have been pinched a couple times with that process.


Naturally I understand it is a beta, I havent really lost anything, the scenario is complete (apart from final playtesting) in v.25.

Just at the moment unable to move forward :(
After 400+ hours spent constructing one scenario over the last 6 months, I barely know what to do with myself!



boogabooga -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/10/2021 11:03:28 PM)

The situation in "Capture" is possible if the unit inherits from a mission that does NOT inherit from the side.

You could try to ping the unit in the Lua console to see what the "actual" ROE settings are. It might just be a problem with the display in the unit panel. From my observations, if one goes by the ctrl F9 Doctrine screen, everything seems to be working as before.



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/11/2021 12:05:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

The situation in "Capture" is possible if the unit inherits from a mission that does NOT inherit from the side.



Technically yes, but not if the upper part of the unit card was visible, showing that it wasnt attached to a mission.



If testing turns this out to be a display problem rather than a problem with inheritance itself, do I need to re-log this as such?



michaelm75au -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/11/2021 1:57:25 AM)

No, a new issue doesn't need to be logged. But devs had been looking for possible doctrine issues in the core code based on the original reported issue rather than in the UI.
The UI refresh is being looked at now.
FYI
From .26 release notes
quote:

Significant UI performance improvement in "busy" scenarios (lots of reported messages)

There was a tweak to the Unit Doctrine panel UI to improve performance on large scenarios. This would explain why .25 and .28 behave differently.



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/11/2021 2:48:04 AM)

Relieved a link is present to a change made, I had no idea that it could be a display rather than a function issue, I may have discovered such if I had ran more tests but I'll know for next time.

Thanks again!
Pete



p1t1o -> RE: 1147.28 - All Doctrine settings wiped and inheritance not working in all scenarios (7/12/2021 7:28:55 PM)

Can report that the issues I have been experiencing have been fixed in the v.29 update.

Many Thanks,
P



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