sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (Full Version)

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sveint -> sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/23/2021 8:59:54 PM)

This won't be a traditional AAR. I'll post tidbits, summaries and interesting things happening.

Sadly Villain has been around the block and knows all the tricks. I was going to take Scapa Flow on turn two, but... no.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/4444D663727B40A68F67C3CC25847D8B.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/23/2021 9:01:34 PM)

Poland uses a new strategy of garrisoning its units. Early game seems slightly harder for Germany now. Wonder what the French will do.



Harrybanana -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/23/2021 10:34:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

This won't be a traditional AAR. I'll post tidbits, summaries and interesting things happening.

Sadly Villain has been around the block and knows all the tricks. I was going to take Scapa Flow on turn two, but... no.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/4444D663727B40A68F67C3CC25847D8B.jpg[/image]




Actually, if you are using 1.00.12, there is a new rule:

Added raider retreat rule. If a fleet at sea in raider mode is in a non-ocean hex it will retreat from the hex if next to an enemy fleet.

So if the sub is in raider mode you can bounce it out of the hex by moving a fleet adjacent to it. If it is not in raider mode you can move your German fleet adjacent to it in Fleet mode and hope that it intercepts your fleet and is sunk.

I like this Rule, even though I learned it the hard way. What I don't like is that it doesn't say if the "enemy fleet" has to be in Fleet mode. If a fleet in Fleet mode can bounce a fleet in raider mode that makes sense. But it doesn't make sense to me if a fleet in raider mode can bounce another fleet in raider mode.



MagicMissile -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/24/2021 12:47:49 PM)

I made a quick test seems raider fleets do move raider fleets slightly odd I think [:)].

/MM



Harrybanana -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/24/2021 3:25:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

I made a quick test seems raider fleets do move raider fleets slightly odd I think [:)].

/MM


I agree. A fleet should have to be in Fleet Mode to bounce a fleet in Raider Mode. Otherwise my 9 unit fleet in Raider mode could be forced to move by an single enemy DD in Raider mode.



Nirosi -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/24/2021 4:31:24 PM)

I believe it is been removed by the hotfix

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5053192



ncc1701e -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/24/2021 6:29:58 PM)

That's my understanding as well.



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/24/2021 11:00:07 PM)

Canadians garrison Syria. For some reason I always thought I needed French units in French colonies.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/00C02473F9B54ABCB9CDA7C07A2B4762.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/25/2021 4:35:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Canadians garrison Syria. For some reason I always thought I needed French units in French colonies.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/00C02473F9B54ABCB9CDA7C07A2B4762.jpg[/image]


Maybe because that is the House Rule we played with. My standard House Rules include that the French Colonial units cannot be moved until Italy is an Axis Ally.



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/26/2021 3:12:07 AM)

The weather clears in early March but we badly botch our attacks on the Benelux. Should perhaps have waited. The war in Belgium is about to get a lot harder.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/0EB0ED81C71447E68FF5852A372367E9.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/26/2021 5:55:58 PM)

Garrisoned infantry is going to be a problem. I'm starting to think a later attack with more panzers is better against Belgium, even with clear weather.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/633F88AC7E78438FA8EF1670BAD046AB.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/27/2021 1:01:22 AM)

I meant to do a historical attack on Norway but the air/neutral bug is literally in my way.
No way to paradrop, no way to bomb an enemy fleet on a neutral coastline.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/E1923154A1CD42B3A07E07A5182A6751.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 12:51:45 AM)

The new reality in France 40.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/725083A37B9E4646B502EE69F518C469.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 1:01:23 AM)

End of turn May 24.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/BD059A0E81604AE294E875041117FF05.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 5:40:57 AM)

Early June, we suffer a Panzer corps overrun by infantry (whatever, shouldn't be possible).

But it may just have all been worth it because the Royal Navy is asleep on the job.

My guess is: very weak British land forces in England, and the BEF is exhausted from the counter-attack.

Edit: I see my panzer corps started at 14 strength, no way it should have been overrun. Shattered, sure.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/97B8D3BDAEC94A22B041A1F0716EB91E.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 12:56:12 PM)

Is France now too strong from your point of view?



Villain -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 1:26:02 PM)

Nice landing Svein!
I gambled you wouldn't want to use 60 Landing Ships on a tank and lost. doh.

This seems like a weird result after only being ground struck once without any damage and having place to retreat/shatter.

[image]local://upfiles/37697/81E8C0AE7BC442BF83FBD478EF686131.jpg[/image]



Nirosi -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 1:51:57 PM)

I agree, the surrender results are sometimes really weird. Not super common, but 2-3 times per game I see something like that.



stjeand -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 3:51:12 PM)

Perhaps there is a small chance of a surrender rather than a shatter...and as luck would have it...

Al would have to answer.



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 7:51:33 PM)

An occational infantry surrender is no big issue. But tanks overrun by infantry?



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 7:52:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
Is France now too strong from your point of view?


No France is fine. Garrisoned infanry are no threat, they basically cannot attack, nor move.



Villain -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 8:20:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

An occational infantry surrender is no big issue. But tanks overrun by infantry?


Inf overrunning tanks is kinda odd however, iirc it was the third attack at 7-1 odds and this likely would have been a high odds shatter previously.

The French naval bombardment helped a bunch otherwise I wouldn't have had decent odds.



Nirosi -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/28/2021 9:48:03 PM)

quote:

An occational infantry surrender is no big issue. But tanks overrun by infantry?


It is not in the updated manual, but it does seem to me from the results in our game that overrun is simply the new name for shattered due to high odds. So just a question of naming, nothing has changed I believe, seen France kill tanks before the legitimate way (High odds). Usually takes quite a few attacks however, and of course some luck especially at exactly the minium required of 7vs1, but possible and happened before...

Shattered probably now is only used for the long retreat paths I would assume. At least now we know the difference of the result since the name is different.

So I believe the overrun is explained with the same rules as before rules, but the surrender when a retreat path is available is very confusing to me. Should have gone to the queue (shatter) from everything we know of the rules.



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 1:06:10 AM)

Late June, another port seized. There was a very weak division there but we couldn't make it retreat on our first attack with the paratrooper so had to land a full corps.
Southampton unfortunately has a small corps.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/20AD9C4C18304AABAF8EC1C0D70888B6.jpg[/image]



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 1:09:02 AM)

Our paratrooper shatters to a 2-1 attack. No really. First a panzer corps that shouldn't have been overrun, then this. We'll see if it continues.

We sacrifice two naval units to bring a corps into Cardiff.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/9EACCAE4CA1B44AA892C0105AA1DC2F1.jpg[/image]



stjeand -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 1:17:00 AM)

Paratrooper shattered due to not being able to retreat...and it apparently wanted too.
Even at 1 to 1 retreats can occur, though rare. Strange though 2 to 1...with the naval units there I suspect the odds were much higher.
HOPEFULLY because was in supply it appears in your deployment queue?

As for the panzer...sorry but 7 to 1 means it will lose and it should.
Not sure about the surrender odds vs retreat / shatter / overrun though.



sveint -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 3:08:52 AM)

Our corps in Worthing surrenders, I don't expect much else by now.

And who attacks at 1 to 1 and expects anything but a massacre? Apparently in this reality the defenders lose.

[image]local://upfiles/2348/BF89285FEF7547918837C731A140E4B4.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 6:54:38 AM)

This opportunistic Sea Lion is looking too clever by half. 60 PPs lost on the amphibs, not including the various corps getting forced to surrender. And the British have this invasion well contained. It cannot be properly supported until France falls. This is a very expensive way to convince the BEF to abandon France. I think it is not worth it. I would be evacuating rather than throwing more good money after bad.




Villain -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 11:05:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint
And who attacks at 1 to 1 and expects anything but a massacre? Apparently in this reality the defenders lose.


[sm=innocent0009.gif]

Got lucky for sure however I wanted to reduce some effectiveness on your inf while it wasn't entrenched to make it easier later since I should regain effectiveness faster. The UK needs to do things now while you're still occupied in France.

I'm also more and more convinced that the odds might not accurately reflect the actual combat effects of Carrier Ground Support or Naval Bombardment.




Nirosi -> RE: sveint (Axis) vs Villain (Allies) (7/30/2021 12:28:54 PM)

Like Villain, I believe the shore support made the difference. Seems quite strong and probably improved the odds by at least 1.

However, even 1vs1 attacks are not necessarily a massacre. They rarely do anything serious to the defenders, but they do not always end in a massacre for the attackers. In USSR 1vs1 odds the first winter are quite effective to lower German reediness and improve the unit's XP at often very reasonable loses.



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