RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (Full Version)

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loki100 -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/21/2021 8:17:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

Regarding the rail redundancy, to me it seems like most of the time less freight gets shipped along rail lines than their actual capacity. So having multiple rail lines by itself wouldn't help in that case. However, if you have more railyards connected (as opposed to simply having more rail lines without more railyards), then in theory that should help. So having extra rail line paths in the north may not help too much, because there are not many rail yards there. But in the south, it might help more, if you are connecting more rail yards because of it. The south has more railyards than the north.


couple of quibbles.

a) you really don't want to run at capacity as that invokes the max SMP cost/hex. As a subset note there is no actual cap on what goes through a hex, once you have 30k (and the 6 SMP) that is it. But if you are over 30k it takes longer to clear

b) you only need the railyards where freight entrains (ie starts a depot-depot journey) or if you move units. So lets take Minsk. You actually won't use the railyard (ie the ability to generate 'trains') till Minsk is set up to feed other depots, as long as its directly feeding combat commands its railyard (in this sense) is of little value

So while in the end hooking in all the level 2+ railyards is a good idea it will be some time before those 'trains' are much practical use. Remember that freight/units only draws from railyards up to 30 (connected) hexes away - or to put it in context, freight that starts from Warsaw is too far to access say the Berlin railyards

All this has a bearing with the ideas of layering your depots and setting up a few rear area depots to grab and store freight till you want/need to release it to the front lines




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 12:19:41 AM)

Turn 10 sent to Jubjub just a bit ago. Will update when I get the turn 11 back from Jubjub since I have to work on my other game with Guctony and do the write up there :-)




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 1:42:04 PM)

Ok, on Turn 8 I put 10th PZ on refit on a depot with HQ with supply level 2. This is the picture of that unit turn 8 close to the front. I want to also lower the amount of "damaged" units in the Division.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/376509A48BEC4940BAADB847BC22BFB0.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 1:47:57 PM)

For 10th PZ did not move or attack turn 9 and received the following replacements.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/C5EC042B0A0C49BEB11BCBF82EA654C9.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 1:50:03 PM)

For 10th Pz still hasn't moved or attacked turn 10 and received the following replacements.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/0CF950B73BCA4138B3849D758F5E2901.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 1:51:56 PM)

10th PZ turn 10 still has a great deal of damaged elements. Is there a fast way to reduce those damaged elements? Probably better supply is part of the equation, anything else to speed up the repair of damaged elements?

(I am in the process of scouring the manual for an answer but thought the forum may know )

[image]local://upfiles/53556/DE29D203D7264E00A5F215C170E79046.jpg[/image]




loki100 -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 2:49:23 PM)

re damage repair, it keys off leader admin rolls (I think its admin), the vehicle reliability, supply. Think thats it, so there is no clear 'speed', but I think supply is important (going on the view that in 1941 I struggled to clear damaged tanks, come 1943 and they are a bit of a non-issue)

getting replacements is tricky. In part the active pool is most likely low (the hard wired, realistic, production issue), in part a tank has a fairly hefty load so not many get shifted along the train lines if they are stressed. You certainly need to be to the rear and at a depot with plenty of freight.

I realise no-one likes doing this (incl me) but in the end flipping it to the national reserve really does solve both problems. It will grab missing tanks and repair/swap out its damaged stock. The price is it returning at one of your NSS and having shed its CPP.

In both my games that have completed the 41-42 winter, I ended up with 2 Pzr divisions I simply couldn't get to repair, this solved it, but they were off for about 5 weeks.

Joel has said there is no bias as such vs tanks in the freight system, but there is generally a presumption against replacements (they are last after freight as fuel etc). So there maybe something lurking in the system (aka a bug) but if so its not obvious.




K62 -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 2:51:50 PM)

According to 25.2:

The ability of a unit to receive replacements and
supplies/fuel/ammo, and repair damaged aircraft and
ground elements is dependent on its location in relation
to the supply grid, specifically the distance from the
depot or depots from which they are drawing supply
and replacements. All these functions are conducted
automatically during the logistics phase (5.3.1).

So sitting on a depot seems like the right move.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 3:23:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

re damage repair, it keys off leader admin rolls (I think its admin), the vehicle reliability, supply. Think thats it, so there is no clear 'speed', but I think supply is important (going on the view that in 1941 I struggled to clear damaged tanks, come 1943 and they are a bit of a non-issue)

getting replacements is tricky. In part the active pool is most likely low (the hard wired, realistic, production issue), in part a tank has a fairly hefty load so not many get shifted along the train lines if they are stressed. You certainly need to be to the rear and at a depot with plenty of freight.

I realise no-one likes doing this (incl me) but in the end flipping it to the national reserve really does solve both problems. It will grab missing tanks and repair/swap out its damaged stock. The price is it returning at one of your NSS and having shed its CPP.

In both my games that have completed the 41-42 winter, I ended up with 2 Pzr divisions I simply couldn't get to repair, this solved it, but they were off for about 5 weeks.

Joel has said there is no bias as such vs tanks in the freight system, but there is generally a presumption against replacements (they are last after freight as fuel etc). So there maybe something lurking in the system (aka a bug) but if so its not obvious.



Thank you for your answer.

It looks to me over 2 turns the damage elements only went down on average about ~20-30% while still adding replacements.

Ya, I won't send my PZ Divisions to the Reserve. I would rather rail them to a NSS instead stopping at depots on the rails to the NSS if can't make it in one turn. Or what I have been thinking is like setting Kiev and Minsk up as level 4 depot to stockpile supply then send the PZ Divisions there instead for a try in my next game. Granted I will take a supply hit to the front in 41 but may be an alternative but that is just me "musing" over a solution.

Also, I had too many units in the Center asking for replacements at one time it looks like too. I have rectified that this turn cutting down on the call for replacements to units in the center to have more supply for units in general. At least that is what it looked like to me.






HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 3:25:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: K62

According to 25.2:

The ability of a unit to receive replacements and
supplies/fuel/ammo, and repair damaged aircraft and
ground elements is dependent on its location in relation
to the supply grid, specifically the distance from the
depot or depots from which they are drawing supply
and replacements. All these functions are conducted
automatically during the logistics phase (5.3.1).

So sitting on a depot seems like the right move.


Thank you for your answer & the manual snippit! :) Ya, you are correct on sitting on the depot which I am on and on the main rail track. I think the other part is time since the repair rate seems to be really slow :( Which in 41 the Germans are in short supply of. Now to find in the manual how to get more time for Germany ;-P




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 3:46:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

re damage repair, it keys off leader admin rolls (I think its admin), the vehicle reliability, supply. Think thats it, so there is no clear 'speed', but I think supply is important (going on the view that in 1941 I struggled to clear damaged tanks, come 1943 and they are a bit of a non-issue)

getting replacements is tricky. In part the active pool is most likely low (the hard wired, realistic, production issue), in part a tank has a fairly hefty load so not many get shifted along the train lines if they are stressed. You certainly need to be to the rear and at a depot with plenty of freight.

I realise no-one likes doing this (incl me) but in the end flipping it to the national reserve really does solve both problems. It will grab missing tanks and repair/swap out its damaged stock. The price is it returning at one of your NSS and having shed its CPP.

In both my games that have completed the 41-42 winter, I ended up with 2 Pzr divisions I simply couldn't get to repair, this solved it, but they were off for about 5 weeks.

Joel has said there is no bias as such vs tanks in the freight system, but there is generally a presumption against replacements (they are last after freight as fuel etc). So there maybe something lurking in the system (aka a bug) but if so its not obvious.



Thank you for your answer.

It looks to me over 2 turns the damage elements only went down on average about ~20-30% while still adding replacements.

Ya, I won't send my PZ Divisions to the Reserve. I would rather rail them to a NSS instead stopping at depots on the rails to the NSS if can't make it in one turn. Or what I have been thinking is like setting Kiev and Minsk up as level 4 depot to stockpile supply then send the PZ Divisions there instead for a try in my next game. Granted I will take a supply hit to the front in 41 but may be an alternative but that is just me "musing" over a solution.

Also, I had too many units in the Center asking for replacements at one time it looks like too. I have rectified that this turn cutting down on the call for replacements to units in the center to have more supply for units in general. At least that is what it looked like to me.





Here is another snippit from the manual for replacements :) Good read

[image]local://upfiles/53556/5805AFFD87AB464683DB673015FBEF81.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 3:49:55 PM)

The last paragraph is really interesting on what happens

[image]local://upfiles/53556/8BC49FA89FDB4F1EA537446D0C954B89.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/23/2021 3:53:10 PM)

Oh! O.O

I should have read the manual first! LoL, nothing like learning on the spot.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/D1843767F4264F9DB9D36D2A40072B6A.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/26/2021 9:48:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 10 Beginning of Turn

PZ Division

My worst shape Panzer division. Even my best shape one next to supply is in bad shape :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/0C657041AE1547E18752A880ACDB629D.jpg[/image]


I am still on my turn 11 Air phase and haven't moved a thing. But I wanted to give a status update on my worst shape PZ Division. I didn't move the PZ Division, not on a depot & no HQ in the hex. Was able to fill up to get some nice replacements but fuel, ammo, didn't move. Was able to get a few new tanks but still didn't fix many damaged elements. So all in all not bad even though my "need" increased in the 3 catagories because of the replacements :( Not to mention needing a great deal more trucks

Another turn at a minimum and should be in good shape to resume operations with this Division.


[image]local://upfiles/53556/3A3DC7EDA0CC450A8459561A35C7FE43.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:17:20 PM)

Turn 10

Beginning of the turn the North and Center 30,000+ view of the Front.

Goal for this turn is to rest in the Center and try an assault on Rzhev for the Airfield.



[image]local://upfiles/53556/510C20D562514CFCB59FB5BD9739B1C5.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:23:02 PM)

Turn 10 Beginning of the Turn

Center and South

Jubjub has played a very good defensive game & kudo's to him on that. I do feel the center is weak between Orel, Kursk, and Kharkov and will move to contact here to really see if any Soviets are here. In the South will follow the just retreated Soviets and continue my march towards Stalino.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/A9AE25E4B57845CC9100B51B9DCB3468.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:29:27 PM)

Again, I want to say it here in this AAR that I really do appreciate the information that Loki shares in my posts and others. This information is invaluable & very much appreciated. Plus, this goes to all people on the forum that are helpful in their postings. Thank you & keep up the posts.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:35:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Again, I want to say it here in this AAR that I really do appreciate the information that Loki shares in my posts and others. This information is invaluable & very much appreciated. Plus, this goes to all people on the forum that are helpful in their postings. Thank you & keep up the posts.


Plus, Jubjub is a wealth of knowledge too if you don't already know. I would follow him when he post things.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:37:19 PM)

Turn 10 Ground Phase

Rzhev

I go all out to take Rzhev without Ground Support. (My airbases didn't have enough Air Support in the area for Fighters or bombers. I rectify this this turn and lesson learned the hard way.)

[image]local://upfiles/53556/3B5E422D438E46F58FA67D376FFBE458.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:44:41 PM)

Turn 10

Center

Not a single Soviet unit was seen one hexing my PZ & Moto forward. Gain ~10 hexes of free ground in the area. That is the most I have gotten against Jubjub in a very long time.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/225A376FFF98469DA0B40149C9A94D83.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 5:53:18 PM)

Turn 10

South

I move to contact and put Rumanians on the front line marked in orange. I already know this is a "no no" against Jubjub but did it anyway. They pay the price next turn as both are obliterated to dust which I will show later in the AAR. Those units will be on refit for a very long time :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/5FE8B77AFB0D492B9AB191B7B35F1850.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 6:01:00 PM)

Turn 10

VP's



[image]local://upfiles/53556/12A6D1EFAC724CC2AB4CDDAA4913A18B.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 6:01:40 PM)

Turn 10

Manpower Losses over the turns



[image]local://upfiles/53556/A26574444EA7479493A33D6273F94BBF.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 6:02:54 PM)

Turn 10

Tank losses so far in the war

[image]local://upfiles/53556/65C99898861E4A9DB43C1C3F28A330FF.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 6:03:36 PM)

Turn 10

Ground Losses

I have to get my supply under control to lower my losses. It is killing me.


[image]local://upfiles/53556/C18DC563D4CC4D46861E7721E8395ED3.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 6:05:11 PM)

Turn 10

Air Losses



[image]local://upfiles/53556/C9F2933423184B22B7F78D443A6E144E.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 6:05:40 PM)

Turn 10

OOB

[image]local://upfiles/53556/3DE18802DAC04B219E009173A7BA7B41.jpg[/image]




DesertedFox -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 7:49:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 10 Ground Phase

Rzhev

I go all out to take Rzhev without Ground Support. (My airbases didn't have enough Air Support in the area for Fighters or bombers. I rectify this this turn and lesson learned the hard way.)



How do you "force" air support units to a specific airfield?




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 8:00:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 10 Ground Phase

Rzhev

I go all out to take Rzhev without Ground Support. (My airbases didn't have enough Air Support in the area for Fighters or bombers. I rectify this this turn and lesson learned the hard way.)




How do you "force" air support units to a specific airfield?



It is a good question. I briefly touched on it earlier in the AAR but didn't go into depth, post #623. But, I wish there was a button that I could push to bring in Air Support on demand. But I personally don't know at the moment if there is a way to force it other than rotating squadrons in. But what I did turn 10 is just flood the airfields with recon planes to bring up Air support. I just sent too many planes to reserve and Air Support followed them :(




DesertedFox -> RE: Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub (9/27/2021 8:06:23 PM)

Cheers HL.

Yeah, you should be able to "order" support to an airfield in anticipation of the following turn for your squadrons to occupy and make use of it.




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