RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (Full Version)

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thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 2:47:51 AM)

T246 5/14/44 The Allies have landed in Mindanao. The fleet was withdrawn due to continued air strikes causing damage to the ships. They will need all their power to make a run to Okinawa.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/1ED1693350ED410FA08F1766B8889A9E.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 5:01:42 AM)

T247 5/27/44 Here is a view of Axis inventory of replacements. Note the infantry squads circled. Normally it is 400 per turn. It went up to nearly 500 at one point and then is now reduced to almost 300. That represents the strategic bombing and the occupation of many German factories. It also includes Japan's production which is not damaged yet. The current reduction is at nearly 25% reduction.

Early in the war the Axis runs a surplus but then at the end they are in deficit. Overall it should be roughly historical as long as the allies focus on destruction of Axis factories. Supply is also reduced when oil centers are taken. If the Allies do not attack Axis industry aggressively the Axis will have extra equipment which will make a big difference.

When the B29 aircraft enter the Japanese production can be reduced. Of course if Japan itself is invaded then more factories can be occupied. (Good luck with that...)

[image]local://upfiles/50703/9A8B7ACA1C034670BD2DEB482959E5E9.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 5:16:27 AM)

T247 May 21, 1944 Note the Ferdinand panzer units defending Berlin. How many Panzer and Panzer Grenadier divisions can you count around and in Berlin? The black and white units are SS and the black and green units are SS that fought only on the eastern front.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/FABC9EC07AE54A49846047943A9ACDB0.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 5:28:55 AM)

T247 May 21, 1944 Nearly all units have plenty of Panzerfaust and/or Panzerschreck weapons.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/4F2E291CF45E4BF7932063EBB564974E.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 7:32:05 PM)

T247 5/21/44 Here is a view of the US fleet moving north. The naval air search spotted the Yamato Group. It will now be sunk with a massive strike from the fleet. I do not want the Yamato Group to sail into my ships.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/9063741DD91F4DE3B142563FAE0CB82F.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 7:45:13 PM)

T247 5/21/44 Yamato group attack results by 600 naval bombers.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/04C2F2FE3C024D9A86847D72BE2F1252.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 7:46:48 PM)

T247 5/21/44 Here is the display showing the air groups. No CAP was put up by the Axis Bot. That will change soon. The Yamato group was standing guard duty at that location. I had considered sending a small force into that area to try and capture an island base on the cheap but felt the Japanese air power would sink it. So I sent in the fleet for CAP. I did not think or know the Yamato group was hiding there in ambush...

[image]local://upfiles/50703/D354DC34A8EF49029A7A367E4ECC1D9F.jpg[/image]



rhinobones -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/15/2021 11:46:08 PM)

I’m curious about unit sizes deployed and believe a design change is warranted. As is, combat units range in size from corps to company with company units holding 25 km fronts against divisions.

Have you considered eliminating company units and making battalions the smallest (non-divisible) maneuver units?

Regards



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 1:04:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

I’m curious about unit sizes deployed and believe a design change is warranted. As is, combat units range in size from corps to company with company units holding 25 km fronts against divisions.

Have you considered eliminating company units and making battalions the smallest (non-divisible) maneuver units?

Regards



Thank you for your interest.

It has been my observation that small units frequently get overrun when trying to hold up larger units. That includes an encirclement when the defender runs them over making a retreat due to combat. If that does not happen then an empty hex would have held up the larger unit anyway due to lack of available movement. I have noticed exceptions of course. One situation that happens once in a while, a small unit will hold a hex when surrounded and attacked by forces 10 or 100 times larger yet it holds anyway. To remedy that one must leave a hex for the smaller unit to retreat due to combat and then it can be overrun after combat. That is some type of game engine bug I guess. Fortunately it is rare.

I do not believe a design change is needed.



rhinobones -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 4:04:50 AM)


quote:


It has been my observation that small units frequently get overrun when trying to hold up larger units. That includes an encirclement when the defender runs them over making a retreat due to combat. If that does not happen then an empty hex would have held up the larger unit anyway due to lack of available movement. I have noticed exceptions of course. One situation that happens once in a while, a small unit will hold a hex when surrounded and attacked by forces 10 or 100 times larger yet it holds anyway. To remedy that one must leave a hex for the smaller unit to retreat due to combat and then it can be overrun after combat. That is some type of game engine bug I guess. Fortunately it is rare.


There are quite a few battalions in the OOB so I understand your reluctance to do the tedious work required and make them all non-divisible. However, the reasoning to keep company units on the same battlefield as corps and divisions doesn’t work for me. It sounds like a work-around, much like that professed by Apple Boy. In the end I feel that the scenario would be much improved by elimination of the ant units. That said, it is still a magnificent scenario and I applaud all of the effort involved.

Regards



Curtis Lemay -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 4:38:02 AM)

PTO would seem to require very small units. Just as the ETO would seem to require very large units. So...if you're doing both at the same time...



rhinobones -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 4:47:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

PTO would seem to require very small units. Just as the ETO would seem to require very large units. So...if you're doing both at the same time...


Why?



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 7:05:22 AM)

The scenario is an attempt at making all of WW2 from 1939 to 1945. It is basically on the divisional scale including the Pacific. There are some smaller units included as well for accuracy. The scenario is an attempt to see if TOAW can do it all in one scenario since naval rules are now included. It is a test of the TOAW game engine and I think it performs quite well.

As for the fragmented smaller units I had never considered that. The map is 20km per hex and not 25km. With the large map the small units seem useful but maybe limiting the size to no smaller than a battalion could improve playability. That alone would be a reason to do it. Another version may be worth doing with the size limitation for accuracy and playability.

Thanks for the complement on the scenario and the effort involved. Making a PO version took a long time to make it competitive against a human opponent.




thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 2:29:47 PM)

T250 6/11/44 Here is a view of the Berlin area from the Axis view. The Allies and Soviets are closing in.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/113188B59B964FEF812FE316324FE55F.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/16/2021 2:34:33 PM)

T250 6/11/44 The Japanese forces on Mindanao are now out of supply and will be mopped up soon.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/B0A7C00348414E23A52E4C2CFA8CEB98.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/17/2021 10:43:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:


It has been my observation that small units frequently get overrun when trying to hold up larger units. That includes an encirclement when the defender runs them over making a retreat due to combat. If that does not happen then an empty hex would have held up the larger unit anyway due to lack of available movement. I have noticed exceptions of course. One situation that happens once in a while, a small unit will hold a hex when surrounded and attacked by forces 10 or 100 times larger yet it holds anyway. To remedy that one must leave a hex for the smaller unit to retreat due to combat and then it can be overrun after combat. That is some type of game engine bug I guess. Fortunately it is rare.


There are quite a few battalions in the OOB so I understand your reluctance to do the tedious work required and make them all non-divisible. However, the reasoning to keep company units on the same battlefield as corps and divisions doesn’t work for me. It sounds like a work-around, much like that professed by Apple Boy. In the end I feel that the scenario would be much improved by elimination of the ant units. That said, it is still a magnificent scenario and I applaud all of the effort involved.

Regards




What would be the method to make the battalions non-divisible? I understand and have used filling a formation with 32 units so none divide. Also dividing one in the formation will also prevent the others from dividing but have not tried that one.

Do you know of another method? Thanks for your info on this subject.



rhinobones -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/17/2021 11:23:09 PM)

The process is straight forward; however, it does take some patience to work through the OOB.

1. In the editor, change all battalion designations to section. This change can also be made using 76mm’s editor which might make the job easier.

2. In the custom graphics folder add the two modified Counter Numbers files. Note that the section graphic has been changed to the battalion graphic. If you don’t have these files, I can post them here.

Regards and Good Luck


[image]local://upfiles/5722/E23389960D4446E1AF00310A0B008BCD.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/17/2021 11:29:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

The process is straight forward; however, it does take some patience to work through the OOB.

1. In the editor, change all battalion designations to section. This change can also be made using 76mm’s editor which might make the job easier.

2. In the custom graphics folder add the two modified Counter Numbers files. Note that the section graphic has been changed to the battalion graphic. If you don’t have these files, I can post them here.

Regards and Good Luck


[image]local://upfiles/5722/E23389960D4446E1AF00310A0B008BCD.jpg[/image]



Thanks for the info. I am going to give it a try.



thomasharvey -> RE: WAW 1939-1945 PO Version 62221 Allied Human vs Axis Bot (9/18/2021 12:11:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thomasharvey


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

The process is straight forward; however, it does take some patience to work through the OOB.

1. In the editor, change all battalion designations to section. This change can also be made using 76mm’s editor which might make the job easier.

2. In the custom graphics folder add the two modified Counter Numbers files. Note that the section graphic has been changed to the battalion graphic. If you don’t have these files, I can post them here.

Regards and Good Luck


[image]local://upfiles/5722/E23389960D4446E1AF00310A0B008BCD.jpg[/image]



Thanks for the info. I am going to give it a try.




I guess I don't have the two modified counter number files or do not know where to find them. I would appreciate if you could post them. This looks interesting to make this change. Thanks.




rhinobones -> Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 3:32:51 AM)

Counter Number files attached.

Good to hear that you are taking this suggestion seriously. Any questions, problems, please feel free to contact me. Note that the attached files are intended for making battalions indivisible. The same can be done for other unit levels.

Regards



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 3:42:36 AM)

Thanks for the files rhinobones. I am going to try and get it to work. I think it will improve the scenario like you indicate.

I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again.



rhinobones -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 4:21:13 AM)

Arrieres

Que la guerre soit allumee



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 10:22:55 PM)

Here is an improved version of the scenario, WAW39-45 PO Version 62221 that does not allow battalions to fragment or breakdown into subunits. This reduces clutter on the map of small companies that interfere with larger size units that are regiments, divisions and corps.

To use this version move the scenario file and the two png files to the custom graphics folder. All three must be there for this battalion feature to work properly.

Many thanks to rhinobones for showing me this idea and method. I think it improves the scenario. It makes it more playable and accurate as well.

To use it the scenario must be restarted from the custom graphics folder. It can't be used in a game already in progress.

I can't post the game files at this time. I finally got them posted!



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 11:41:24 PM)

T254 7/9/44 The Soviets are progressing faster than the allies to the center hex of Berlin.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/A45B891594AF4C1699EA9E91DDAC5695.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 11:55:33 PM)

Here is one png file needed.



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/18/2021 11:56:45 PM)

Here is the other png file needed.



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/19/2021 1:50:18 PM)

T255 7/16/44 The end is near for the German Bot

[image]local://upfiles/50703/E633758F40B1411795E0143944BAEA3F.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/20/2021 4:31:34 AM)

T257 7/30/44 The Russians are now adjacent to the center of Berlin. If the center of Berlin falls the German Bot surrenders.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/5071D4D46A4C41D7BC96BDA295AB6A93.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/20/2021 4:32:53 AM)

T257 7/30/44 Here are the defenders of the center of Berlin chosen by the Axis Bot. The red on black bunker unit is SS police.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/E464225D982B473D9681376A3550E009.jpg[/image]



thomasharvey -> RE: Counter Number Files (9/20/2021 4:35:35 AM)

T257 7/30/44 Here is a view of a German Jet Fighter group defending the Berlin area.

[image]local://upfiles/50703/01BFAE9536FB45A0BFAD426E118B910A.jpg[/image]



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