Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (Full Version)

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Yogol -> Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/10/2021 12:21:33 PM)

Hi,

is it intended that when a unit ends its turn in a friendly hex that is next to an enemy hex without an enemy unit in it, it does not receive extra CPP (aside from the standard 1/24 CPP of the turn)?

So, when the manual says "not adjacent to the enemy", it means "not adjacent to an enemies hex" and not "not adjacent to an enemies unit"?



loki100 -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/10/2021 1:46:39 PM)

good question ... I'll do a test with a vs AI game I have going and confirm

but my instinct is the description is correct, you can get the situation you describe in a few situations. My guess is that rapid CPP gain comes off a unit not being in tactical deployment so able to rest, train, bring up new cadres etc. Sitting next to a maybe empty/maybe not hex would interupt this to some extent forcing active patrols, pickets and so on?



loki100 -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/11/2021 11:36:24 AM)

So here's a test, easiest is the brigade with 100 SMP left:

[image]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1331/uGO5nT.jpg[/image]

So it gains 4 CPP if the rule is adjacent to any enemy held hex and 12 if its an enemy unit :

[image]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8942/1f9J2C.jpg[/image]

so the rule is not adjacent to an enemy controlled hex (which I think makes sense given what the bonus is meant to represent)



Yogol -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/13/2021 11:38:12 AM)

Thanks for checking it!!! It seems to be "near an enemy hex", no a unit. Very, very good to know!

(However, I'm not entirely sure that the real-life explanation that you give is applicable, due to the simulated one-week-fighting that occurs. You can attack with a unit and withdraw a bit so it is no longer next to an enemy hex and it will get the bonus even when it fought that turn. So it is not like it hasn't done anything that week. And the bonus is given the second you hit "END TURN" so you get it even when an enemy unit moves next to it or attacks it on their turn.)



carlkay58 -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/13/2021 12:56:19 PM)

Yogol - yes you could attack with a unit and pull back a hex to recover more CPP. But the thing to remember is that the movement costs for the attack and pull back reduce the unit's SMPs also and that is what determines how much CPP you recover in a turn. With infantry you could easily lose CPP recovery by pulling back that extra hex (obviously depending on the MP cost to retreat that hex). It also is not taking the hex so you would need reserves to capture the hex after you pull back or the enemy could just reclaim the hex in their turn.



loki100 -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/13/2021 1:48:38 PM)

A trick I'm starting to use is that CPP really rewards echelon attacks.

So front line infantry at or near 100 CPP attack and don't advance. Second line infantry move through into the captured hexes.

The stuff that attacked will get back to 70-75 CPP for the next turn so move up, attack again, don't advance. So you can have say a corps of low CPP units occupying the ground and a couple of corps of high CPP units doing attacks over say 3 turns before they need to rest.

Easier to set up with the Soviets as you usually have more units to hand but it can set up a pretty deadly offensive - as long as a single hex a turn is what you need - which can be the case on some sectors or phases of the war



IanW -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/14/2021 12:29:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

Easier to set up with the Soviets as you usually have more units to hand but it can set up a pretty deadly offensive - as long as a single hex a turn is what you need - which can be the case on some sectors or phases of the war


This is good old British Bite and Hold tactics from 1917, and it destroys the German Army one regiment at a time while not giving them the opportunity to do those mobile counter attacks that cut off your spearheads that they so love.

Note that a slowly moving front has many fewer of those well-established fort 3+ positions that are so annoying to chew through.

And once they move reserves into the sector to deal with the Bite and Hold, then there's somewhere else the mobile columns can break through ...



AlbertN -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/14/2021 12:55:59 AM)

That CPP favors the Soviets is quite obvious.
They're a force multiplier - and the Soviets have more units.

The strategy Loki depicted is well suited for a slow, grinding advance as well.

Germans must rush quickly ahead on a thight timetable, burning CPP to attack anything on the way, or at worst marching across empty land.
The Soviets sits there at distance since the beginning of the game, dig in AND mass CPP.
Germans do not really have the amount of units nor the gameplay time to do a two lines, fire and reload / invert firing line type of fighting in the way of old musket movies!



IanW -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/14/2021 1:32:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

That CPP favors the Soviets is quite obvious.
They're a force multiplier - and the Soviets have more units.

The strategy Loki depicted is well suited for a slow, grinding advance as well.

Germans must rush quickly ahead on a thight timetable, burning CPP to attack anything on the way, or at worst marching across empty land.
The Soviets sits there at distance since the beginning of the game, dig in AND mass CPP.
Germans do not really have the amount of units nor the gameplay time to do a two lines, fire and reload / invert firing line type of fighting in the way of old musket movies!


It's almost like the Germans are trying to do a war of maneuver based on mobile forces surrounding enemy formations in a concentric attack, while the Soviets are trying to destroy the enemy with a series of echeloned attacks that get you into a Deep Battle after achieving operational depth.

Nahhhh. Couldn't be. Both sides should use exactly the same methods and tactics.



loki100 -> RE: Is CPP lower when ending next to an enemy hex? (8/14/2021 9:52:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IanW


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

That CPP favors the Soviets is quite obvious.
They're a force multiplier - and the Soviets have more units.

The strategy Loki depicted is well suited for a slow, grinding advance as well.

Germans must rush quickly ahead on a thight timetable, burning CPP to attack anything on the way, or at worst marching across empty land.
The Soviets sits there at distance since the beginning of the game, dig in AND mass CPP.
Germans do not really have the amount of units nor the gameplay time to do a two lines, fire and reload / invert firing line type of fighting in the way of old musket movies!


It's almost like the Germans are trying to do a war of maneuver based on mobile forces surrounding enemy formations in a concentric attack, while the Soviets are trying to destroy the enemy with a series of echeloned attacks that get you into a Deep Battle after achieving operational depth.

Nahhhh. Couldn't be. Both sides should use exactly the same methods and tactics.


exactly

while both armies had a doctrine of a decisive battle that led to the scope for movement in practice this was framed very differently. The Soviets are looking for a decisive fight that creates movement, the Germans are looking for movement space to achieve the circumstances for a decisive battle (realise that is a wee bit of a simplification).

But part of why #2 is such a good design is that the two armies are very different, and not just in terms of OOB etc but how you can/should use them



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