Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) - '43 GC (Full Version)

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jubjub -> Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) - '43 GC (8/11/2021 2:28:06 AM)

’41 recap


This is my second game vs Gam3r. Settings are all the basics plus enhanced TB off (super annoying). The 1941 campaign is pretty well covered, but there’s hardly any AAR’s that make it to ’42. The next 40 or so turns should prove to be very interesting to share, and I am also counting on some tips from the community that I might not know about.


In this game, I went for a pretty basic strategy, keeping all my units in the same OOB, since I wanted to see how much further I could get towards Leningrad by keeping PG1 with AGN instead of diverting them to the middle. It was definitely not worth it, and I would’ve been much better transferring them like I did in the first game. The lesson I learned is that if you want to capture Leningrad in ‘41, you need to make a big commitment. Otherwise, PG 1 should be transferred after getting close to your winter defensive line.


Despite a much-improved defense by my opponent, almost every ’41 city (besides Kalinin and Rostov) fell with the full bonus this game as well, but I was not able to destroy as much of the Soviet army because he retreated pretty rapidly in August/September. Keeping PG 1 in AGN didn’t help either. There was no Axis winter offensive outside of the Crimea, and I was able to dig in with level 3 forts along the entire front. I also sent 8-10 panzer divisions to the reserves because I thought I was in for an easy winter.


Around September, I was met with determined resistance in the Crimean peninsula, and fought a winter offensive through the western half of the peninsula. After finding 80,000 men commanded by Zhukov in Sevastopol’s city fort, 11th army laid siege to the port city. The Luftwaffe lost hundreds of planes trying to isolate the city, with Mig-3’s performing exceptionally well, but the city was finally isolated and taken on December 21st (turn 27) after reducing the fort level with 4 costly assaults on the city. 11th army then proceeded to evacuate the Crimea, leaving 6 divisions to garrison the city.


If I remember correctly, the Axis got through December pretty unscathed, winning most of the defensive battles, but the lack of supply and lack of ready reserves caught up to the Germany army. Repeated assaults by the Soviets around Orel in the clear terrain broke down 2nd army’s and 2nd PG’s defense, and I was too late to see the danger and retreat. The Red Army achieved significant breakthroughs in this area and the area west of Rzhev. Gam3r ended up encircling and destroying about 140,000 men around Orel – including a panzer division, Totenkopf, and a motorized division on the 8th of February (turn 34). During this time, Model and Weiss both ate the dust :( However, it’s now March 1st (turn 37), and I have mostly contained the Soviet breakthroughs, the supply situation on the Eastern Front is improving, and Spring is right around the corner.


Plans for the '42 campaign (March 1st)


The first order of business for March to contain the breakthroughs for good, and to reorganize my armies before thinking about an offensive. I have some more ideas for what I want to do, but those are secret 😉. You can look at the map and see for yourself what opportunities await. While the front is in shambles around Orel and Bryansk, and the Red Army is quite large, I have a couple of things going for me. First, the Soviets have achieved very few victories until February, and the Guards status is very poor. I only saw his first guards units last turn or the turn before. Second, the state of my panzer divisions is quite good, since most of them were hanging out in Germany. Lastly, the Red Army’s supply situation isn’t great, and it’s been losing steam. Even though the situation is less than ideal, I am still optimistic that the German Ostheer will continue its march unabated towards glorious conquest!


Some important steps I am taking:

• Bringing panzer divisions back to the map
• Reorganizing Support units
• Preparing motorized divisions to cut the salients
• We’ll bring back the Luftwaffe within a couple of turns.



[image]local://upfiles/80089/9295E252C3404E2FBBB12E6795A74DEB.png[/image]




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 2:30:30 AM)

OOB Turn 39 - March 1st 1942

[image]local://upfiles/80089/C6FA4F6BDF3B4DF98D01550A5C46CEA2.png[/image]




OberGeneral -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 4:14:26 AM)

The necks of the Soviet salients are only 3 to 4 hexes wide and should be fairly easy to cut off.[sm=happy0065.gif]




Rosencrantus -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 4:46:21 AM)

I love me some Rzhev salients [:)]




loki100 -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 6:27:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

...

• Bringing panzer divisions back to the map
...


just a small warning, they shed their organic trucks in the reserve, so make sure they return to a NSS hex where there should be trucks for them to acquire. I found it took a couple of turns before I rebuilt their allocation

so it may easily be say 4 turns from when you release from the reserve till when you can use on the front lines





jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 4:57:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

...

• Bringing panzer divisions back to the map
...


just a small warning, they shed their organic trucks in the reserve, so make sure they return to a NSS hex where there should be trucks for them to acquire. I found it took a couple of turns before I rebuilt their allocation

so it may easily be say 4 turns from when you release from the reserve till when you can use on the front lines




All of my NSS's have a grand total of 400 trucks combined :( Vyazma has 4000 trucks though. If I sit my panzers there, they will receive those trucks?







jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 5:12:07 PM)

Roslavl Pocket


Managed to pocket the largest salient in two turns. I estimate about 400,000 troops in this pocket. 3rd & 4th shock armies as well as 33rd army HQ's are all caught - with Vatutin and Rokossovky commanding the shock armies. The tally includes two Guard Rifle Corps, one Guard Calvary corps, and at least four other Calvary corps - all loaded with tank brigades. Most of the divisions have attached brigades as well. If I can surrender all of these units, I should capture at least 20,000 sorely needed trucks, destroy a lot of his current guard units, and potentially kill some of the Red Army's best generals.


It's a race against time, as the Bryansk salient is crumbling from intense pressure to the east.


Calling this the Roslavl pocket because it seems to be the biggest town inside the pocket.

[image]local://upfiles/80089/B679E2E86F4246EEAB73891F7E3D880A.png[/image]




Q-Ball -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 6:45:49 PM)

Wow, I can't believe he didn't pull out of that....salients favor the attacker, not the defender, and he probably failed to realize that initative passes to the Axis in late March of '42 as supply problems ease.

Tense situation, but if you can successfully keep that close, wow...




loki100 -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 6:59:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

...

• Bringing panzer divisions back to the map
...


just a small warning, they shed their organic trucks in the reserve, so make sure they return to a NSS hex where there should be trucks for them to acquire. I found it took a couple of turns before I rebuilt their allocation

so it may easily be say 4 turns from when you release from the reserve till when you can use on the front lines




All of my NSS's have a grand total of 400 trucks combined :( Vyazma has 4000 trucks though. If I sit my panzers there, they will receive those trucks?



if the NSS identifies a need (such as to feed trucks to units), they will pull them in. I've tested this and pretty confident on how it operates. Problem with somewhere like Vyazma is getting the units there and that those trucks are probably in use etc




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 7:11:16 PM)

quote:

if the NSS identifies a need (such as to feed trucks to units), they will pull them in. I've tested this and pretty confident on how it operates. Problem with somewhere like Vyazma is getting the units there and that those trucks are probably in use etc



Thanks, that should help a lot since panzer divisions tend to get stuck with 50% trucks. I guess I need to keep a corps HQ at the NSS as well so they don't fail all of their supply roles (OKH is in Minsk).




Gam3r -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 9:30:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Wow, I can't believe he didn't pull out of that....salients favor the attacker, not the defender, and he probably failed to realize that initative passes to the Axis in late March of '42 as supply problems ease.



Don't have much choise. To do that i should have abandoned my attmpts to encircle his 2 army an 2nd Pz army in the february. Now its looks like historical failed Kharkov offensive.


Also
Crimea situation:



[image]local://upfiles/78197/22C7F4AA550A4086A8E25314A1F36431.png[/image]




EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 9:57:30 PM)

The crazyness of these frontlines is quite satisfying. Kudos for takibg risks and allowing them to develop.




Rosencrantus -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/11/2021 10:24:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

The crazyness of these frontlines is quite satisfying. Kudos for takibg risks and allowing them to develop.


Yes I agree, the creation of salients like these are the best way to experience the game... At the edge of your seat looking forward to what is happening next. Big applause for Germany standing and fighting instead of just retreating into the winter blizzard without forts and likewise for the Soviet player who also is attempting to outflank the overstretched axis forces. Even after the encirclement the Soviets will still be strong, with them getting a 150,000 manpower boost in may. This is peak eastern front combat right here.




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 2:13:12 PM)

Looks like my opponent assigned all of his support units to an HQ and flipped it out of the pocket. This is within the rules, but it's super lame that the game allows this.


It's just not realistic to be able to escape with 1000 tanks, 1000's of vehicles, and 10,000's of men like that. Now, instead of capturing 20,000 trucks, I'll be lucky to get 5,000. This is a giant loophole that needs to be amended..




freeboy -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 2:36:49 PM)

escaping a pocket with leaders is not quite the same as 15000 vehicles or what ever ..




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 2:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

escaping a pocket with leaders is not quite the same as 15000 vehicles or what ever ..



There were probably 40 brigades that escaped this way. He re-assigned all of his support units (tank, ski, rifle etc. brigades) from his units to the HQ's within the pocket and then flipped those units out. Like I mentioned earlier, every division/corps was loaded up with tank brigades, and now they're all gone - presumably out of the pocket.


Also, I'm likely overestimating the amount of vehicles by at least half.. I looked at the tank brigade TOE, and it looks like they have about 200 each, vs the 500 I thought they had initially.




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 3:08:44 PM)

Anyway, I don't want to keep crying over spilled milk. I just want to bring some attention to this issue, and the scale on which it can be abused.


So far, we've captured 90,000 men, 1,000 artillery pieces, and 0 tanks from the pocket. The one upside to not fighting tanks is that panzer divisions can be used to clear the pocket without massive attrition to my tanks. Additionally, the rail connection to a small depot in the salient has been restored with an FBD on it, so in a couple of turns, this area of the map should have its supply issues eliminated.




loki100 -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 5:12:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Anyway, I don't want to keep crying over spilled milk. I just want to bring some attention to this issue, and the scale on which it can be abused.


So far, we've captured 90,000 men, 1,000 artillery pieces, and 0 tanks from the pocket. The one upside to not fighting tanks is that panzer divisions can be used to clear the pocket without massive attrition to my tanks. Additionally, the rail connection to a small depot in the salient has been restored with an FBD on it, so in a couple of turns, this area of the map should have its supply issues eliminated.


its pretty gamey and will get stopped in the next patch, any HQ that exits a pocket (either relocation or bumped) will see its SU destroyed, we're testing a patch with this change now but not sure when it'll be out in the wild.




erikbengtsson -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 6:48:23 PM)

Destroyed or surrendered?




Gam3r -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 7:35:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Anyway, I don't want to keep crying over spilled milk. I just want to bring some attention to this issue, and the scale on which it can be abused.



Also think that it is highly unrealistic, but thought it will be a good exapmple of this issue.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 7:37:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gam3r


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Anyway, I don't want to keep crying over spilled milk. I just want to bring some attention to this issue, and the scale on which it can be abused.



Also think that it is highly unrealistic, but thought it will be a good exapmple of this issue.



Ya, glad it is getting the nerf bat for sure.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 7:38:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erikbengtsson

Destroyed or surrendered?


I HOPE surrendered :)




loki100 -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 7:50:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erikbengtsson

Destroyed or surrendered?


treated as destroyed, so some portion may arrive back in the pools but not a lot




Rosencrantus -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 9:13:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: erikbengtsson

Destroyed or surrendered?


treated as destroyed, so some portion may arrive back in the pools but not a lot


Makes the most sense tbh, small units like support units can find gaps in the enemy lines and usually get out. Though they should not have any artillery pieces or heavy weapons with them when they get out.




AlbertN -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/12/2021 10:21:21 PM)

I may be wrong but Surrender is the same as Shattered or Destroyed no?
With the only difference that if someone Surrenders, there are captured elements - prisoners and equipment.

Isn't that the case?
Given what goes to Soviets early in the war will go to Axis later on so... but I think for Germans the important deal is that they lose the unit (and anyhow get recreated in a bit in the reserves, but at 0 elements)




bruceaboyd -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/13/2021 1:50:07 AM)

Can you post a save file from the beginning so I can track progress better.

Thanks ever so much; looking for a great AAR




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/13/2021 4:50:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bruceaboyd

Can you post a save file from the beginning so I can track progress better.

Thanks ever so much; looking for a great AAR



This is a server game, so I don't have access to any save files. I also didn't really take many screenshots before march 1st. Is there anything in particular that you want to see/know?




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/13/2021 4:50:30 PM)

Crimea Placeholder




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/13/2021 4:52:39 PM)

Salient Update

It looks like the Soviets have abandoned their attempts to rescue the pocket. Another 65k men are taken prisoner.


The eastern salient is being abandoned as well. Apologies for the highly redacted images, I may update for the full view later.




[image]local://upfiles/80089/0E2C60F603A34CE1B7375D72B2944222.jpg[/image]




jubjub -> RE: Comeback Time '42 GC Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) (8/13/2021 4:56:35 PM)

Crimea Air War

No repeat of Luftwaffe's disastrous winter Sevastopol campaign. Luftwaffe 4 catches Western (?) air command off the coast of Crimea without air superiority directives. The Soviet fighters intercept the bombing runs piecemeal, resulting in their complete annihilation.


With the fighter force wiped out, IL-2's take to the skies unescorted with predictable results. At least a third of the on-map air force is destroyed.


[image]local://upfiles/80089/EA1BEABC3F1240EFA8FA1EBAC6773161.jpg[/image]




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