What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (Full Version)

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huda0816 -> What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/13/2021 8:54:23 PM)

I am playing the new AndyMac scenario number 2 as Allied vs AI on normal difficulty).

It is the 21st of february and the 6th Australian Division is already in Trincomalee with the 7th on her way to Ceylon. How shall I use those Divisions. Historically they went back to Australia but there are so many restricted units and I already bought some battalions to guard port moresby and a lot of US troops are already on their way to Australia.

So here are my Options:

1. Move them to Burma
The Japanese had just taken Moulmein and there are only Burma-Command units there. That maybe not enough to hold the Japanese back.

2. Move them to Malaya
I have a defensive line at Mersing and Kluang with more troops in Singapore and Johore Bahru. Almost the whole 3rd Indian Corps is there including the 18th British ID and the 11th Indian Division. Is there a chance that with the help of the Australians I can push the Japanese back?

3. Move them to Java
I did not reinforce Java yet and the Japanese landed in Denpaser 2 days ago. I am not sure if 2 Divisions can make a difference there.

4. Do something different?
Any suggestions are welcome.



GetAssista -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/13/2021 9:07:40 PM)

First, put them on the landmass, so that they not be lost in some island encirclement or sunk enroute. Oz (as well as Brit) squad replacements are low so you better use those divisions somewhere on the regular frontline where they can regularly R&R.

For your particular game it depends on where you plan to stall the AI. India/Burma is always a good destination.



jdsrae -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/13/2021 9:50:45 PM)

Historically 6th Aus Div sent two Bdes to garrison Ceylon for a few months before joining the other in Aus.
Bdes were moved between Divisions as the war situation required, so you may not want to form them into Divs, or form Divs but then split them into thirds.

Elements of 7th Aus Div were sent to Java and captured there while the rest went to Aus.

Against the AI you can try anything, but unless you can keep the supply flowing to them they could end up in trouble.
India and Australia are safer bets as the units shouldn’t be destroyed there.
Ceylon, Burma, Sumatra, Java, Malaya are riskier as those places will be harder to supply.



RangerJoe -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/13/2021 10:12:58 PM)

Abandon Burma for now, guard the Indian border and bases along the coast line with units in strategic move mode for emergency reinforcements. Those emergency reinforcements should be placed off the coast but with rail movement distance to an invaded base.



HansBolter -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/14/2021 2:18:32 PM)

They aren't needed in Burma, even against an Ironman AI.

India would be a valid choice against a human opponent, but not against the AI.

Send them Home, upgrade their TOE when the time comes and use them as part of your spearhead into either NG or on the Ambon/Celebes axis of advance.



GetAssista -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/14/2021 7:33:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
They aren't needed in Burma, even against an Ironman AI.

India would be a valid choice against a human opponent, but not against the AI

Well, there are good practices that you can play any time and that will help you against any opponent. Andthen there is against-AI doctrine. Which might not include anything at all except Hokkaido landing in 1942. So use them for that, anything else is a waste agai st AI



RangerJoe -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/14/2021 8:09:25 PM)

Well . . .

You could also disband them to send their devices to the pools . . . [;)]



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/15/2021 9:14:01 AM)

Put them in a long boat till they're sober.



Sardaukar -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/15/2021 9:22:52 AM)

I keep them in India for my inevitable recapture of Burma and Malaya in 1944-1945.



HansBolter -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/15/2021 11:37:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
They aren't needed in Burma, even against an Ironman AI.

India would be a valid choice against a human opponent, but not against the AI

Well, there are good practices that you can play any time and that will help you against any opponent. Andthen there is against-AI doctrine. Which might not include anything at all except Hokkaido landing in 1942. So use them for that, anything else is a waste agai st AI



Nice try at an underhanded snide remark.

I tried some of your "good practices for any game" such as retreating to the heavy terrain with the Chinese army and it made for an extremely boring game.

I play for entertainment, not to satisfy you.

Go ahead and keep on putting down solo players until you have completely ostracized yourself.



huda0816 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/15/2021 8:32:36 PM)

Thank you for all of your replies. I know the AI might be no challenge to you but it is my first Allied GC after playing one as Japan some years ago.

What happened during the next 2 days (I am playing 2 days per turn) is that I almost lost the Indomitable and the RoyalSouvereign while shipping troops to Pegu because of land based bombers.

This showed me that I won't be able to reinforce Singapore any more as Japanese Carriers linger around Batavia and there is too much land based air threat in the Strait of Malacca.

So my plan is as follows:

I will ship the 6th Division to Sumatra to secure Palembang.
The 7th division will be sent to India where I can move them to Burma if I need them there.



HansBolter -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/16/2021 11:23:57 AM)

Creating a Fortress Palembang is one well documented way of breaking the AI.

Most of us veteran AI players have done it multiple times.

If you don't mind having your game become unviable for the AI by mid '43, creating a Fortress Palembang can be an interesting experiment.

I tended to create mine by evacuating the Malaya garrison to Palembang, rather than sending incoming reinforcements there, but your choice may create an opportunity to stall the AI in both Sumatra and Malaya.



Nomad -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/16/2021 1:18:22 PM)

I will just post this without comment. I believe it is Andymacs comments relayed from Alfred:

Time and time this question is asked. It really is pointless. It is not the specific script, not the particular scenario which matters. Any scenario/script (yes even Nast Nasty Tier 3) will cease to be competitive if the Allied human player focuses on stopping at all cost computer Japan from capturing in 1942 these bases:

1. Singapore
2. Manila
3. Clark Field
4. Bataan
5. Palembang
6. Batavia
7. Soerbaja
8. Rangoon
9. Mandalay
10.Rabaul


These bases are absolutely essential for any computer script.

Not quite essential but still of great assistance in maintaining a competitive AI player is for these bases to also be captured by the computer.


11. Port Blair
12. Port Moresby
13. Tarawa
14. Shortlands
16. Lunga
17. Akyab


All these bases (with the exception of Port Moresby) were historically captured by Japan, and it wasn't enough to make Japan really competitive in the war. Why do human Allied players believe that denying the computer these bases will allow the AI to remain competitive when the real life Japan with these bases wasn't competitive.



Macclan5 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/16/2021 4:44:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816
So here are my Options:

1. Move them to Burma

2. Move them to Malaya

3. Move them to Java


4. Do something different?
Any suggestions are welcome.


To the original poster - welcome recruit to a great game.

There is very good advice from a number of veteran players above noted. You on the other hand may not feel as confident being able to stymie the AI nor anticipate its moves as a new player. Nothing wrong with that either.

All of your ideas are frankly excellent but ultimately there is NO ONE ANSWER that is correct.[8D] It will depend upon what you view as a Strategic Priority in your game - i.e. where you want to draw the line in the sand and force the Japanese back. It might be Burma / Malaysia or Java.

The 6th/7th (and associated ART and ENG as I recall) are very very potent units and generally able to withstand or even attack and conquer IJA units; they are in my opinion the most potent units available in the China / India / Burma theatre early in the war.

Generally speaking - as a relative newbie - I would tend to keep them in Division form and get them to Chittatong / Akylab. They will help you defend and eventually counter attack in Burma to exceed the historical outcomes in terms of timing. Further they may anchor your spearhead as you plan forward either 'back to Singapore' or 'perhaps through French Indo China and Hong Kong' - however that is merely an opinion or preference - not an ideal deployment.

Look to their HQ and its OOB. You may be able to attach other Australian Divisions to the same HQ at nominal cost in terms of PPoints before building them up to full strength - thus saving you points and giving you future flexibility.





RangerJoe -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/16/2021 6:14:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5


quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816
So here are my Options:

1. Move them to Burma

2. Move them to Malaya

3. Move them to Java


4. Do something different?
Any suggestions are welcome.


To the original poster - welcome recruit to a great game.

There is very good advice from a number of veteran players above noted. You on the other hand may not feel as confident being able to stymie the AI nor anticipate its moves as a new player. Nothing wrong with that either.

All of your ideas are frankly excellent but ultimately there is NO ONE ANSWER that is correct.[8D] It will depend upon what you view as a Strategic Priority in your game - i.e. where you want to draw the line in the sand and force the Japanese back. It might be Burma / Malaysia or Java.

The 6th/7th (and associated ART and ENG as I recall) are very very potent units and generally able to withstand or even attack and conquer IJA units; they are in my opinion the most potent units available in the China / India / Burma theatre early in the war.

Generally speaking - as a relative newbie - I would tend to keep them in Division form and get them to Chittatong / Akylab. They will help you defend and eventually counter attack in Burma to exceed the historical outcomes in terms of timing. Further they may anchor your spearhead as you plan forward either 'back to Singapore' or 'perhaps through French Indo China and Hong Kong' - however that is merely an opinion or preference - not an ideal deployment.

Look to their HQ and its OOB. You may be able to attach other Australian Divisions to the same HQ at nominal cost in terms of PPoints before building them up to full strength - thus saving you points and giving you future flexibility.


That is very good advice. Send more American units to Australia to comfort the young ladies there . . . [;)]



huda0816 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/21/2021 6:19:22 PM)

Thanks again for your advices. Also thank you to Nomad for this important piece of information.

It is the 17th of march now and I had to change plans as the Japanese are aggressively pushing east in the pacific and almost all off my US troops are now trying to contain the thread and retake some islands which are endangering my supply lines to Australia.
The Japanese did also capture Milne Bay, Terapo, Horn Islands the Solomons, Koumac and Norfolk Islands.
Australian High Command has therefore requested that the 6th Australien Division must bolster homeland defenses and return home together with every naval asset still operationg in the Indian Ocean.

As a new player I am really scared about the fast paced Japanese advance. Also 2 days ago a Japanese taskforce with two CAs showed up in Pearl Harbor's harbor and attacked my CV-Taskforces anchored there. I foolishly did not have any Naval- or Dive-Bombers on naval attack. Fortunately none of my carriers got hurt. (Are this suicide tactics scripted or is this some kind of AI routine?)




Platoonist -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/21/2021 7:39:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816

Are this suicide tactics scripted or is this some kind of AI routine?



It's been my experience in games against the Japanese AI that it's very fond of sending valuable surface naval assets to impale themselves on Oahu's defenses to little effect. If you spot them coming and have dive or torpedo bombers based there you can rack up some cheap victory points in a hurry.



HansBolter -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/21/2021 8:22:51 PM)

Surface raids on Allied major ports is a staple of AndyMac's Ironman scenarios.

He may have scripted a few into his revamped scenario #2.

Carrier TFs should NEVER be in a port that does not also have at least one Surface Combat TF to protect it.

A SCTF with a lower TF number is desirable since the game mechanics allocates movement and combat sequence based on TF number.
This is something that most newbies are not aware of.

I work constantly to lower the TF number of my SCTFs.
If I am assigning ships to an ASW TF and it is automatically assigned TF #3 (or any more desirable number under 200)by the game engine, I immediately disband said TF and go looking for a SCTF with a higher number to disband and then reform with the lower TF number. Then I reform the ASW TF with the former higher number that was assigned to the SCTF.

This is something to be aware of when the Thundering Herd evacuates from Manila. In games against the AI, the exit path will invariably be covered with minefields. The FIRST TF formed and those that follow, until useable ships types are exhausted, should all be Minesweeping TFs. The first TF formed, with the lowest TF number, will be the first TF to move.



huda0816 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/21/2021 8:49:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Surface raids on Allied major ports is a staple of AndyMac's Ironman scenarios.

He may have scripted a few into his revamped scenario #2.

Carrier TFs should NEVER be in a port that does not also have at least one Surface Combat TF to protect it.

A SCTF with a lower TF number is desirable since the game mechanics allocates movement and combat sequence based on TF number.
This is something that most newbies are not aware of.

I work constantly to lower the TF number of my SCTFs.
If I am assigning ships to an ASW TF and it is automatically assigned TF #3 (or any more desirable number under 200)by the game engine, I immediately disband said TF and go looking for a SCTF with a higher number to disband and then reform with the lower TF number. Then I reform the ASW TF with the former higher number that was assigned to the SCTF.

This is something to be aware of when the Thundering Herd evacuates from Manila. In games against the AI, the exit path will invariably be covered with minefields. The FIRST TF formed and those that follow, until useable ships types are exhausted, should all be Minesweeping TFs. The first TF formed, with the lowest TF number, will be the first TF to move.


That is good to know.

Also is it recommended to evacuate LCUs from manila or just the fleet. In my game it's probably too late as Clark Field fell some days ago and the ships are long gone. I am only sending single ship Transport-TFs from Singapore to deliver supplies to Manila.



RangerJoe -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/21/2021 9:23:16 PM)

For buyable units, try to fly just a part to another base that the AI may not capture right away. If the main part is destroyed, the fragment is now the unit and it should be cheaper to buy out.



huda0816 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/21/2021 10:45:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

For buyable units, try to fly just a part to another base that the AI may not capture right away. If the main part is destroyed, the fragment is now the unit and it should be cheaper to buy out.

That is definitely something I will do when I am playing my first pbem match.



castor troy -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/22/2021 3:43:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

For buyable units, try to fly just a part to another base that the AI may not capture right away. If the main part is destroyed, the fragment is now the unit and it should be cheaper to buy out.

That is definitely something I will do when I am playing my first pbem match.



And in PBEM this could be seen as rather gamey. There's a reason how the political points system was incorporated.



huda0816 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/22/2021 6:50:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

For buyable units, try to fly just a part to another base that the AI may not capture right away. If the main part is destroyed, the fragment is now the unit and it should be cheaper to buy out.

That is definitely something I will do when I am playing my first pbem match.



And in PBEM this could be seen as rather gamey. There's a reason how the political points system was incorporated.



Yeah, but with everything I have read so far I thought min-maxing is a must in multiplayer games.




Andy Mac -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/22/2021 7:01:47 PM)

Depends on your opponent most of my games are not like that



huda0816 -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/22/2021 10:09:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Depends on your opponent most of my games are not like that


I am looking forward to play my first multiplayer game but first I have to be careful that the AI will not autowin in 1942.

Thank you for your effort to create this challenging scenario.

May I ask where the Kido Butai is in April 1942. I didn't see it since Pearl Harbor and I am afraid it could smash my party at any minute.



Andy Mac -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/22/2021 10:36:03 PM)

Not sure there are a number of scripts so it could be anywhere !!!



GetAssista -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/22/2021 10:57:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816
May I ask where the Kido Butai is in April 1942. I didn't see it since Pearl Harbor and I am afraid it could smash my party at any minute.


There's a number of tricks you can use to guess the location of KB with some degree of certainty. First pay attention to your SigInt log and look for the places of high radio traffic that are not major ports. Recurring ones in the middle of nowhere is a sign that something big is passing. Second, check the detection level of your submarines (hopefully they are all over the map and not all hugging the Home Islands). High detection level means a lot of NavSearch is passing above, and if there is no large airfield nearby then it must be some floating airfield. There are lots of small plane-carrying raiders though in Ironman, some of them might get those DLs up too I guess.

Also, AI usually divides KB into smaller divisions in 42 and can be in many places at once.



RangerJoe -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (8/23/2021 12:13:51 AM)

If you need only some air support at a base, it is not gamey to put just part of the unit there. This will allow PBYs and Float Planes to operate from a base with no AF and they will not be vulnerable to an attack.

The same for Naval support in that moving just some there will provide some Naval Support for unloading assistance as well as some repair capabilities for damaged ships although they will not help repairs if there is no port capability there.



ggeilman -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (9/2/2021 5:03:05 AM)

Right now I am just trying to figure out where to put the 18th division. It is 1/2 and it is to me too late to try and get it into Rangoon.



RangerJoe -> RE: What shall I do with the 6th and 7th Australian Division (9/2/2021 12:12:50 PM)

Then move it to India or Australia, whichever is closer and safer to move to. It is not well trained so it can not attack effectively but it can defend better than a lot of the Indian units.



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