Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (Full Version)

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Moltrey -> Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/15/2021 6:55:39 PM)

Hey guys. I have been mulling over my current position in a AndyMac Allied Cmpn. It is now December 20. I have some of my own ideas on initial distribution strategies, but recent enemy activity has me second-guessing my decision to keep the lion's share of my DDs in Pearl.
Right now I have 21 DDs in PH port, about 12 older DDs on ASW patrol around Pearl, along with 6 or so variants in port. My problem is that both on the West Coast USA and East Coast of Australia I have a real I-boat issue. Not enough DDs to form ASW patrols in any decent amount to discourage Japanese subs from doing as they please. I have sent a small 3 DD minesweeper TF to Pago Pago and use the Canadian Corvettes in/around Vancouver.

While not a huge concern, I have lost 2-3 valuable ships (1 large Oiler, 1 Tanker, 1 Merchant) and I feel that I should have deployed at least 5-8 DDs from Pearl back to the WC, and another 3-6 to Brisbane. I would leave the long range classes in PH for CV escort duty, or perhaps use some of them on local ASW around Pearl to free up the Clemsons, etc. for the tasks of WC and Australia.

Wondering what thoughts you all have on Allied DD deployment strategy in the opening 2 weeks of the war.
Thanks!



Mike Solli -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/15/2021 6:57:13 PM)

[sm=00000613.gif]



Moltrey -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/15/2021 6:59:52 PM)

Care to share some of that HUGE tub of popcorn Mike? [:'(]



RangerJoe -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/15/2021 7:15:08 PM)

Send them on patrol to train them, do not leave them in port unless they are repairing. They can patrol the hex of their home port for this.

Avoid the I-boats by using Naval and ASW searches. Escort your convoys - if you have to, make one large convoy that is well protected.



huda0816 -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/15/2021 9:42:22 PM)

I am facing the same problem in my Allied campaign. At the beginning I used the DDs for ASW without much success. I-boats always showed up where my convoys went and no ASW taskforce was present.

After a while I changed my strategy:

1. disabling auto-convoys
2. started to replace ships in ASW taskforces with Mine sweepers, PGs and Yard-Patrol ships.
3. started to form larger convoys with at least two DDs as escorts.
4. added additional DDs to the convoys when debarking which I split of after the convoy was far away from dangerous waters.



USSAmerica -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 2:10:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

[sm=00000613.gif]


Whatever advice is shared in this thread, you can be sure I'll do something completely different, my sinister opponent! [:'(]



RangerJoe -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 2:40:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

[sm=00000613.gif]


Whatever advice is shared in this thread, you can be sure I'll do something completely different, my sinister opponent! [:'(]


He is left handed?



Maallon -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 7:56:46 AM)

I think it is important to accept that you will loose ships to submarines in this starting phase of the war.
The Allies are just simply not prepared for ASW.

If your enemy is heavily investing subs on the the US West Coast -> OZ East Coast Route, then it might be time to open the East US -> Cape -> OZ Route.
While this route is longer, it is also less dangerous because of the distance to Japanese Bases, especially early in the War when you still control the DEI.
And sending an occasional small Cargo TFs between the US West Coast -> OZ East Coast can lead to your enemy believing that this route is still in use.

In terms of what DDs to use, I would generally not leave any DDs in port doing nothing.
Keeping the DDs that you want to use for fleets near you fleet bases is a sound strategy.
Otherwise I distribute them between areas I think my enemy will send subs in. For example I would send two to three ASW TFs consisting of Clemsons to OZ.
The old and short ranged British and Dutch DDs are also perfect for ASW duties around Colombo and India this early in the game.
And of course around the DEI as long as you can afford to keep them there. The DEI can be very worthwhile for ASW because of the concentration of Japanese Subs in the area and the shallow waters all around.
You can score some early kills that way, even with low ASW values.

Lastly having NAVS in the area you are deploying your ASW TFs in is very useful as they will raise the MDL of the Subs so your TFs can react to them.
This is especially effective if you have NAVS squadrons that fly during the night, because your ASW TFs can directly react to the detected subs during the following day phase.

One thing I still have not reached a definitive consensus in is on how many ships I want to use per ASW TF.
For a long time I used three DDs per TF, but I recently switched to just two DD ASW TFs and they are also doing just fine.
Having three ships is probably a bit more effective, but with two you can have more TFs covering a larger area.



mind_messing -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 10:53:56 AM)

Only particular bit of advice I have is to detach the four Porter class DD's to dedicated SCTF work. Their 5 inch guns are not dual purpose, but they get eight of them. They make very good raiders, or excellent support for the modern USN CL's.



HansBolter -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 11:32:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: huda0816

I am facing the same problem in my Allied campaign. At the beginning I used the DDs for ASW without much success. I-boats always showed up where my convoys went and no ASW taskforce was present.

After a while I changed my strategy:

1. disabling auto-convoys
2. started to replace ships in ASW taskforces with Mine sweepers, PGs and Yard-Patrol ships.
3. started to form larger convoys with at least two DDs as escorts.
4. added additional DDs to the convoys when debarking which I split of after the convoy was far away from dangerous waters.




Nothing has much success at the ASW mission in the beginning due to low crew experience and low ASW values.

Very few, if any, Allied ships have ASW values above 2 in the first year, especially before you convert any of the Wickes or Clemsons to DEs or APDs that have a value of 6. That means ANY ship type capable of being placed in an ASW TF with a value of 1 or 2 is a viable choice for use in that role.

DDs numbers are way, way too low to waste them on ASW in the first 6-12 months.

PCs, PGs, AMs, DMS and even DMs, if necessary are your best choices for ASW in the first year.

I use the large number of DMS at Pearl to drive away the submarine flock.

The few DDs should be escorting carriers in Air Combat TFs and and cruisers in Surface Combat TFs.



Moltrey -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 4:04:58 PM)

I agree with your points HB. However, right now on Dec 20, I am not really making use of my Carriers at PH, perhaps I need to have them doing something like Marshall Is raids, etc. I always have the Lex pick up Putnam's Marine squadron from Wake on the first couple days.

I do use all the PC, PG, KV, DMS and DM ships to do ASW early on as they are just as capable as the DDs. Actually, the DMSs were the 3 ship TF I sent to Pago Pago. Guess I just need to do more of that and send a few of the less capable DDs to the west coast where they can do escort duty of convoys from SF/LA.

I am still a newb in that I have started many games and played up through the end of December or early January in an effort to learn the game better. So, still lots to learn. I find it fun, though starting over is a slog with giving them all orders from my modified Kull spreadsheet.
Thanks everyone for the input!
[:)]



Lowpe -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 5:35:43 PM)

Change to higher skill naval captains...often times free

assign task force commanders with high naval...

make sure every TF has at least one point of ASW...

travel were they aren't

dock at size 3 ports

set to low risk

fly naval search day and night

do shakedown cruises until night experience is max -- hard to do with warships, but easy to do with merchants

don't travel in stormy no moon conditions

use your subs in a counter sub patrol

use minefields

use bait task forces to lure out the enemy iboats

test unknown waters with low vp ships first

use a holistic zen approach where you combine all of the above

use coastal movement

use movement along aerial search paths where possible

form tfs with 24+ ASW, high naval high aggression in the escort captains, with high naval low aggression tf commander. Good luck with that early on...

look at the devices in ships - some DDs are only good for ASW work and generally can provide a task force with better leadership than from a merchant captain...

radar helps...

sure I am forgetting other stuff...when in doubt use common sense

some CLs provide ASW weapons...as do some AMCs...1 ASW point YP are great...







Moltrey -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/16/2021 11:23:58 PM)

Thanks Lowpe! Some great tidbits. Maallon too. Much appreciated guys, it gives me brain a lot to chew on. [;)]



RangerJoe -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/17/2021 12:18:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

Thanks Lowpe! Some great tidbits. Maallon too. Much appreciated guys, it gives me brain a lot to chew on. [;)]


Your brain has TEETH! [X(]



jdsrae -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/27/2021 12:24:17 PM)

This might give you some ideas on how to organise the USN DDs.
I made this chart years ago when I was trying to picture the historical organisation.

How the real Admirals used them might also give you some tips.
The newer DDs seemed to be kept roughly in their Squadron/Division groups to escort CV and CA task forces.
They were organised in Divisions by class, with the Porters as Squadron leaders.
The older DDs that start on the West Coast and at Pearl Harbor were generally used as convoy escorts.
Conversions to APD seemed to start happening late 1942 after the threat to the West Coast over.

[image]local://upfiles/34194/11D509AD3F2D46CD964FF7DD00B14D3D.jpg[/image]



btd64 -> RE: Allied Dec 41 DD Dispositions and Strategy (8/27/2021 12:42:46 PM)

Interesting chart....GP



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