Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn?

Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (Full Version)

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Tanaka -> Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 3:39:17 AM)
For example can you transfer bombing groups to a far away base to attack bases that same turn? Seems they don't? Can't find anything about this?

bradfordkay -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 3:51:19 AM)
Unless the Beta patch (which I have not installed) changed things, yes - you can order squadrons/groups which you have transferred long distances to perform missions including attacks. That is why I have always played with a personal house rule of standing down any air group whose base transfer would take longer than 4 hours at cruise speed.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 3:52:56 AM)
The transfer can significantly increase fatigue in the unit, planes can be lost during the xfr. Other than that nothing.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:06:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Unless the Beta patch (which I have not installed) changed things, yes - you can order squadrons/groups which you have transferred long distances to perform missions including attacks. That is why I have always played with a personal house rule of standing down any air group whose base transfer would take longer than 4 hours at cruise speed. If they flew some sort of mission that increased fatigue and transferred the same day their fatigue could be serious and there could be consequences. If not then the xfr was simply their mission for the day. I wouldn't continue with that "house rule", it is unnecessary. In any case in reality the planes were actually often flown by maintenance crews to the new location and the pilots got some extra sleep. The game doesn't depict them having transports but of course they did have them, otherwise the staff would have to take a train or swim to the new location.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:09:20 AM)
In the US Army they often had women who handled that kind of work.

bradfordkay -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:17:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Unless the Beta patch (which I have not installed) changed things, yes - you can order squadrons/groups which you have transferred long distances to perform missions including attacks. That is why I have always played with a personal house rule of standing down any air group whose base transfer would take longer than 4 hours at cruise speed. If they flew some sort of mission that increased fatigue and transferred the same day their fatigue could be serious and there could be consequences. If not then the xfr was simply their mission for the day. I wouldn't continue with that "house rule", it is unnecessary. In any case in reality the planes were actually often flown by maintenance crews to the new location and the pilots got some extra sleep. The game doesn't depict them having transports but of course they did have them, otherwise the staff would have to take a train or swim to the new location. I call it a "personal" house rule - I have never asked an opponent to use it but it keeps me from asking too much of my pilots and aircraft. So, thank you, but I will keep using that rule.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:22:36 AM)
We all need more opponents like you.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:27:21 AM)
In any case I've seen the fatigue on a squadron go from <20 which I consider optimal to as high as 50 from an xfr, so as far as I'm concerned it's built in to the game. If you do fly a mission you could be sorry.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:30:57 AM)
I do have a "personal" house rule, however. It is to never have any house rules.

geofflambert -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 4:43:34 AM)
But you're right, I guess. I've never moved a fighter squadron to Henderson field on the same day it was captured and fought the next day, for instance. [:D]

btd64 -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 10:45:08 AM)
Don't forget fatigue. That gets higher as well....GP

Alfred -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 12:11:37 PM)
Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred

dr.hal -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 12:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor.

HansBolter -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 3:10:34 PM)
In my experience, they will sometimes not fly until the afternoon, even if the mission could have been performed in the morning and will sometimes not fly until the next day if the transfer distance is too great. One other item of note that can be exploited, and shouldn't be, is the ability to sometimes transfer a fragment twice. If you transferred a squadron and left unready planes behind, once those planes become ready, they can be manually transferred to the location of the parent by the player, be manually merged with the parent by the player and then the entire squadron, including the fragment that just transferred, can be transferred to another base.

Tanaka -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 5:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dr.hal quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor. Thanks guys. I thought so because fatigue aside that is exactly what I am seeing. I ran turn after turn and my far away transferred groups never flew...

rustysi -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/25/2021 8:11:23 PM)
quote: Can't find anything about this? Seek and you shall find...[:D] Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156. quote: A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding resolution phase. [;)]

Tanaka -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/26/2021 6:36:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: Can't find anything about this? Seek and you shall find...[:D] Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156. quote: A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding resolution phase. [;)] That seems to be wrong as per below and my tests... quote: ORIGINAL: dr.hal quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor.

Alfred -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/26/2021 7:02:22 AM)
The manual is not wrong nor did I post anything which contradicts the manual. Alfred

RangerJoe -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/26/2021 2:23:51 PM)
Just because they are free to do so does not mean that they will do so.

dr.hal -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/26/2021 2:34:15 PM)
The manual is good on generalizations but short on details. In many cases we know that TIME is very much taken into account within aspects of the game. For example the ability of a port to restock, refuel or restore ammo and other things to ships. At some point the 1000 points the port has to give runs out. Ships not "serviced" by that time, must wait another day. Why would this clock not be included in the servicing and recycling of aircraft? The excerpt from the manual doesn't go into details. If it did, it would be prohibitively long. But one can extrapolate basic concepts that can be applied across the board (bun intended). A 24 hour clock is one of those concepts. Of course, I could be wrong! But my experience tends to support this observation.

Ian R -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/28/2021 9:26:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tanaka quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: Can't find anything about this? Seek and you shall find...[:D] Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156. quote: A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding resolution phase. [;)] That seems to be wrong as per below and my tests... quote: ORIGINAL: dr.hal quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor. The manual is 100% correct - they will be free to fly a mission. They can fly that mission, which they are free to fly, if they did not take all day do to get to their new base, did not get too fatigued, the new base has the facilities/support to handle them, the target is not too far away, and the weather is favourable. Of course, all that could be aligned, but a bomber unit might still decline a mission without escort into a heavy CAP area. And the leader of the unit might have an effect on whether it flies as ordered. The foregoing is probably not an exhaustive list. Extreme Example 1 - You transfer a fighter unit from Port Moresby to Buna, and tell it to provide escort, 40% CAP, 20% rest. It will very likely fly the CAP, it might get a few machines to escort some bombers to Lae (depending on altitude settings, command chains, HQ co-ordination, etc. Extreme Example 2 - you transfer a B29 group from Peal Harbor to Saipan, and tell it to fly an extended range mission on city attack to Tokyo, into the teeth of heavy CAP, without an escort, through a typhoon. That unit actually flying that mission is about as likely as a snowstorm at Xmas. [;)]Got it now? Edit: The fighters from PM would probably have put some CAP over Buna anyway, depending on the %/range settings.

Tanaka -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/28/2021 6:04:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ian R quote: ORIGINAL: Tanaka quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: Can't find anything about this? Seek and you shall find...[:D] Manual, s 7.2, Air Sequence of Play, p156. quote: A unit may only execute one transfer per Orders Phase, and units that have transferred are free to perform all normal operations from their new base in the immediately succeeding resolution phase. [;)] That seems to be wrong as per below and my tests... quote: ORIGINAL: dr.hal quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred Alfred hits upon a key point, time. Because when you transfer a unit, remember you are, in effect, giving it an order for the next day, not the day in which you see the unit move (it's not instantaneous) and thus time is a factor. If it's a LONG transfer, the unit will not have time the next day to land, rearm/fuel and carry out a mission. So you will not see the unit "do anything" the following day. This is on top of the fatigue factor. The manual is 100% correct - they will be free to fly a mission. They can fly that mission, which they are free to fly, if they did not take all day do to get to their new base, did not get too fatigued, the new base has the facilities/support to handle them, the target is not too far away, and the weather is favourable. Of course, all that could be aligned, but a bomber unit might still decline a mission without escort into a heavy CAP area. And the leader of the unit might have an effect on whether it flies as ordered. The foregoing is probably not an exhaustive list. Extreme Example 1 - You transfer a fighter unit from Port Moresby to Buna, and tell it to provide escort, 40% CAP, 20% rest. It will very likely fly the CAP, it might get a few machines to escort some bombers to Lae (depending on altitude settings, command chains, HQ co-ordination, etc. Extreme Example 2 - you transfer a B29 group from Peal Harbor to Saipan, and tell it to fly an extended range mission on city attack to Tokyo, into the teeth of heavy CAP, without an escort, through a typhoon. That unit actually flying that mission is about as likely as a snowstorm at Xmas. [;)]Got it now? Edit: The fighters from PM would probably have put some CAP over Buna anyway, depending on the %/range settings. Lol yes thanks

jdsrae -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/29/2021 12:13:59 AM)
Ian, you might need to adjust your �as likely as a snowstorm at Xmas� or it will confuse the northern hemisphereans! This all explains why moving a night fighter unit to a new base is why I have not seen it fly night CAP that same night. While the units appear to move instantaneously, that might just represent that they actually move the next morning, and are then available to fly night CAP for the next night phase.

rustysi -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/30/2021 6:03:24 PM)
quote: Air units can conduct operations on the turn they transfer to a new base. However, whether they will do so, in addition to the standard factors which are applied to non transferring units, includes factors such as the distance of the transfer and the range of the aircraft model involved. Alfred +1 quote: They can fly that mission, which they are free to fly, if they did not take all day do to get to their new base, did not get too fatigued, the new base has the facilities/support to handle them, the target is not too far away, and the weather is favourable. Of course, all that could be aligned, but a bomber unit might still decline a mission without escort into a heavy CAP area. And the leader of the unit might have an effect on whether it flies as ordered. The foregoing is probably not an exhaustive list. +1 quote: I call it a "personal" house rule - I have never asked an opponent to use it but it keeps me from asking too much of my pilots and aircraft. So, thank you, but I will keep using that rule. No need, in this case the game seems to handle this very well. Remember just because the manual says they can, doesn't mean they will. I've used it, sometimes they'll fly, sometimes they won't. I can't tell you why or how it happens, its mostly 'under the hood'. Of course, as said above, I have some guidelines as why and how. Any player looking for 'absolutes' is playing the wrong game, it has been designed to avoid these, as much as possible.

rustysi -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/30/2021 6:05:45 PM)
quote: flying that mission is about as likely as a snowstorm at Xmas. Maybe for you, being 'down under'.[:D]

bradfordkay -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/31/2021 4:24:05 AM)
"No need, in this case the game seems to handle this very well. Remember just because the manual says they can, doesn't mean they will. I've used it, sometimes they'll fly, sometimes they won't. I can't tell you why or how it happens, its mostly 'under the hood'. Of course, as said above, I have some guidelines as why and how." The need is to remind me not to demand too much from my air units. There are times that you "just want" to get those newly transferred aircraft into the air due to perceived need but by following this rule I make sure that I do not set them up for failure. The idea behind it is to keep my desires in check.

Ian R -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (8/31/2021 5:51:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay "No need, in this case the game seems to handle this very well. Remember just because the manual says they can, doesn't mean they will. I've used it, sometimes they'll fly, sometimes they won't. I can't tell you why or how it happens, its mostly 'under the hood'. Of course, as said above, I have some guidelines as why and how." The need is to remind me not to demand too much from my air units. There are times that you "just want" to get those newly transferred aircraft into the air due to perceived need but by following this rule I make sure that I do not set them up for failure. The idea behind it is to keep my desires in check. Give them a significant rest percentage, e.g. 40 or 50% for the heavies and the transport aircraft, and don't fly down in the grass. Ops losses drop to minimal levels.

bradfordkay -> RE: Does transferring an aircraft group to another base effect flying missions that turn? (9/1/2021 4:50:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ian R quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay "No need, in this case the game seems to handle this very well. Remember just because the manual says they can, doesn't mean they will. I've used it, sometimes they'll fly, sometimes they won't. I can't tell you why or how it happens, its mostly 'under the hood'. Of course, as said above, I have some guidelines as why and how." The need is to remind me not to demand too much from my air units. There are times that you "just want" to get those newly transferred aircraft into the air due to perceived need but by following this rule I make sure that I do not set them up for failure. The idea behind it is to keep my desires in check. Give them a significant rest percentage, e.g. 40 or 50% for the heavies and the transport aircraft, and don't fly down in the grass. Ops losses drop to minimal levels. If that works for you, cool. My system works for me (and lets me practice my math skills while I am at it).

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