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cameron88 -> What should be changed with Air/Land combat. (9/11/2021 4:38:28 AM)
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After playing both war in the East 1 and war in the East 2 now and having 450+ hours now between both of them, I've come to the realization of some flaws which need to be addressed in war in the East 2, and many complaints i believe are a direct or indirect result of them. I don't know if i should make a mod directed towards improving stats of units, as i don't know how far it can improve it, or if the developers plan to improve some of these things mentioned in the future, which would make the mod irrelevant.
I'd like to say first that i believe war in the East 2 is fundamentally better and overall more enjoyable. This is due to new mechanics and improved UI, graphics, and available information. However this is not true in regards to combat, especially related in comparison to war in the east 1, or real life/other realistic ww2 games. Also, most of the things i say here are 95%> true, and i really could care less if you feel the urge to post the one or two of the historical exceptions to my points, because it's irrelevant.
~~~~~~~~~~The Air War:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Operational losses are far to high. Air losses are just to much right now, and it is genuinely unrealistic and unenjoyable that you CAN and often do lose 10%+ of your airwings in some missions just to operational losses(1-2 missions a day, not excessive). Even when you are not flying in bad weather, it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed. And no, the pilots are not exhausted, lacking fuel, supplies, or flying at the edge of their range. You can look at many AARs or complaints aswell, it's a rather common complaint, for good reason.
2. Ground attack is practically useless. Not only is divisional anti-air beyond unrealistic in its ability to slaughter a 100+ Stukas out of 200 attacking in just a few ground missions(This is common and seriously astonishing to witness), but the planes themselves do little to no damage, making it practically useless to fly these missions at all. It's better to receive whatever minuscule bonus you get from leaving them on ground support, which still get shot down in unrealistic numbers by just a handful of 37mm aa guns. In comparison to war in the East 1, planes feel far less useful in terms of ability to damage and destroy ground units, and get shot down far less, which is much closer to real life. It made using planes feel enjoyable and moving your Stukas or even Ju88s somewhere was actually helpful to your ground units.
This also incentivizes the Soviets to just leave their entire airforce in reserve, or not engage in certain areas, because it's simply not worth defending against bombing, as it does barely any damage to you. Why would you risk hundreds of your own fighters being slaughtered defending when your ground anti air is more then sufficient, let alone the fact the enemy bombers barely damage them?
3. Remove interception/air superiority missions, and make fighters within range engage/intercept bombers/enemy missions around them(Like in war in the East 1). You don't know how many times me or other people have had bombing runs on supply depots, airdrops (both supply and brigades) go over an entire REGION where you have hundreds of fighters sometimes, and they do absolutely nothing. (Even on air superiority they often get through).
4. Soviet air losses are a little too high. While i think Germany is much weaker then it should be, Soviet air losses should still be reduced by -10 to -20%, especially in 1942+. It's another reason why Soviet players just hide their entire airforce instead of using it like they historically did.
~~~~~~~~~~Tank Combat:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5. As I've stated in previous posts, German tanks are very unrealistic. They kill far to little Soviet tanks in engagements in comparison to their losses, and they feel paper thin and virtually useless in many circumstances(Unlike WITE1), especially at defending with the new fatigue system, further compounding the unrealistic losses. Me along with other players actually value motorized divisions more than tank divisions as Germany now for attacking/counter attacking, because they don't lose 50% of their armor attacking/counter attacking Soviet tank corps and have decent loss ratios because they keep most of their TOE. WITE1 had far better tank combat, and was much more historical, which is the biggest issue for me in this game currently.
In regards to retreat attrition, this is also seriously dumb, it's not 1945 Germany, the tanks are not out of fuel, there is not a lack of spare parts, and in 41-43 Germany often has numerous units beside and behind them and there would be no reason to just abandon dozens of vehicles. This is especially so when Germany is the attacker and loses the battle, but ends up losing 50%-100% more tanks due to "retreating", do the developers not understand withdrawal? Tank losses from retreating, and lost offensive battles should be halved across the board for Germany, especially from a historical standpoint, it practically never happened offensively.
Tank combat results overall are so unrealistic that Soviets players are incentivized to ram their own tanks into Germany in 1941 and throughout the entire game basically at any opportunity, just so they can see a 1:1 or 1:1.5 KD at worst. Not once in WW2 on the Eastern front did Germany take anywhere near the casualties present in war in the East 2.
As just a few examples (I've researched practically every major/small battle)
(1941) - Soviets had an advantage in numbers and armor on tanks in most of these battles)
Tank battle at Brody (200 German tanks lost to 800+ Soviet tanks).
Tank Battle of Raseiniai (180 German tanks destroyed to 705 Soviet tanks).
Even in mid 1943 while attacking Kursk, the equivalent to a level 3-4 fort in war in the East 2, Germany inflicted a 1:5 Casualty rate at the very least in virtually every tank engagement. Often inflicting upwards of 1:6/8 tank casualty rate, such as in Porkhorovoka, where the SS panzer corps lost 40-60 tanks, while the Red army lost 400+ according to glantz. Even in the Battle of Kursk as a whole, including the Germans retreating, (this alone would double the losses in war in the East 2 with the silly retreat losses), is 800 to 1000 German tanks lost, to over 7000+ Soviet tanks lost, completely impossible in WITE2, even with an exhausted Soviet tank division, and a 100 preparation point German tank division, you will still take 150%-400% more casualties then would historically happen.
As for later war tanks, again they feel worthless, no better then a Panzer IV(Which i believe is party due to reasons below). While in reality you have battles like the-battle of Maciejow, where SS Panther tanks destroyed over 100+ t34 tanks, at a loss of 0 Panthers, yes 0. Later war German tanks were rarely destroyed in battle, and were more often destroyed by retreating due to lack of fuel or their positions about to be surrounded and the tank was moderately damaged so the crew chose to abandon it(Something that should not happen in 1941 to 1942 ingame at the rates it currently does.)
I believe this is genuinely due to unrealistic armor values in Soviet tanks as i have talked about previously, which is that most Soviet tanks like T34s and KV series tanks have far more armor then they realistically had, even when considering angling and evening values between hull and turret like i have.
The values for rate of fire and accuracy is also unrealistic, with the T-34s (as just one example) have a faster fire rate than both the Panzer 3 and 4 ingame, when in real life it had a well known slow fire rate, poor accuracy, poor ergonomics, and reliability among other things. And you can see this in any battle ingame, a t34 will end up shooting more, and getting more AP hits, while generally out performing panzer 3 long barrels, or panzer 4s, which is just unrealistic and very poorly modeled in my opinion.
Theres also lots of little goofy values i found on many tanks like Panther D having less accuracy then a Panther A with the exact same gun and sights for example, which isnt an issue in WITE1, or the T34/85 having more accuracy than the Panzer IV/3, or Stug. WITE1 Did not have this problem, and i compared values and they are quiet different, with Soviet tanks have properly lower accuracy (among many other things) across the board, which was reversed in WITE2 for some reason.
There's other things i think should be improved like CPP, Exhaustion, urban combat, assault fronts, cost of switching generals in scenarios, german tanks not reinforcing on depots on refit, ect, but i think i wrote enough about my main issues, which is how weak German mechanized forces are and overall how useless airforce feels in WITE2.
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