RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (Full Version)

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RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/26/2022 8:39:57 AM)

The offensive continues. Over 1,000 AFVs lost for the soviets this week to my 242. But they can afford these losses, I cannot.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/A53284E192A449BEAF27EC52CFA1C3E3.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/26/2022 8:44:54 AM)

Also let me voice my displeasure at the Soviets maintaining 60-80000 troops from the Yalta port for many months now, and also maintaining their beachhead across Lake Ladoga (another 80,000 troops, 100,000 if we include the rifle corps adjacent). I am naval interdicting the latter, but I don't think I can isolate it. And even if I can, where do I get the troops to displace 480 CV worth of units? 1070 CV at Yalta. Even when I did manage to isolate it briefly, the CV hardly changed.



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/26/2022 8:46:22 AM)

How fun [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/68404/62E0B4D1D3DF4EBAA9FF898AEA2C90E4.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/27/2022 5:57:05 PM)

This is exactly the scenario I was fearing. The Soviets just have too many men, everywhere, in such force, that I cannot respond effectively.

I have reserves at AGS - but the moment I pull those away, as I did from Kharkov/Orel to respond to the advances there, he'll move to attack the now weakened sector. Rinse and repeat.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/EC61F4CD655C437F9F3F4D4B1349D284.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/29/2022 7:30:26 PM)

Turn 107. 150,000 men encircled. We'll see if I can save any.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/48EFA67E5C8D47A79D06A01EC99FE27C.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/29/2022 7:31:14 PM)

Losses before my moves.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/126524E8EA284ACBAAD22364D24F882B.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (1/29/2022 8:08:25 PM)

Losses after my moves. Soviets remain in excellent supply across the front.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/9006C551D5B943808C76DD5E8BA75446.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/1/2022 9:16:18 PM)

The turn begins with the closing of the pocket, 130,000 men encircled. Technically 150,000 isolated but those 2 IDs can just walk away.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/5A246FF3E1D845BABFA2BE4ECFFA37E9.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/1/2022 9:17:03 PM)

There's also a breach in the south, though pretty easily contained given the units there.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/388069AB6A1D47919EE723138AA06957.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/1/2022 9:25:01 PM)

With things as they are, and turns being so unbelievably exhausting (and there being no sign of this pattern not repeating) I am strongly inclined to throw in the towel.

My HWM is a strong HWM, at 676. I had a very strong 41 in most sectors, but mistakes in early-mid 42 (as well as it being my first time reaching that far) have compounded into a totally ****ing miserable 43. The Soviets are able to concentrate hundreds of thousands of men, extremely easily, to hit a single hex I can at most defend with 3 units. My armored/motorised have been kept as firebrigades for almost a full year now. Things will continue like this for all of July, August, September, with a brief stop when heavy mud arrives, but then doubtlessly continuing into winter/blizzard until heavy mud again arrives.

The Soviets have relatively little supply concerns. I am unable to concentrate armored/motorised for any sort of offensive because my opponent has reserves in every area, artillery divisions in every area, and any removal of my own armored/motorised reserves will lead to a slow but inevitably deadly push.

I have suffered worse defeats in this campaign I think than this pocket, but I've always believed it's possible to scrape together a comeback. This belief has sadly expired, I just don't see how it's possible to stave off collapse in 43 at the rate things are going.

So yeah, this game is open to anyone who wants to claim it. Otherwise I guess it's on permanent hiatus.



Stamb -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/1/2022 10:15:20 PM)

No surprise you are playing Soviets now! I wonder how many more Axis players gonna switch sides. I'm with you. 99% sure that AlbertN also. With current state of the game it is a miserable experience playing Axis. Running Soviets until you face a wall that you can not push and problems with supplies almost all of the time, while other side is swimming in them, even when they have much more men than historically. And even with less people they had to prepare for counter offensives for a few month, while in game they can attack and attack and attack without a problems in multiple places.



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/1/2022 10:34:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

No surprise you are playing Soviets now! I wonder how many more Axis players gonna switch sides. I'm with you. 99% sure that AlbertN also. With current state of the game it is a miserable experience playing Axis. Running Soviets until you face a wall that you can not push and problems with supplies almost all of the time, while other side is swimming in them, even when they have much more men than historically. And even with less people they had to prepare for counter offensives for a few month, while in game they can attack and attack and attack without a problems in multiple places.


I've played both sides since the game came out. I think you need to in order to experience all aspects of the game, and judge it fairly.

But this experience of 43 and the axis experience in general have soured me on playing them. I will continue to as much as possible abuse the Soviets advantages they have in game until things change.

The axis are quite frankly under way too much pressure to perform. You need a good 41 to have a good 42, you need a good 42 to have a good 43. I think the other axis games who've now reached 43 prove that. They've all had relatively good 42s.

The Soviets meanwhile just need to eke out enough of victory in a single year to snowball. I hope to do it in my AAR, where I'm now a few thousand men from 4m OOB. If it's not 41, it'll be 42 with the arrival of corps of different types. If it's not 42, it's 43 when your armored/mechanized really start snowballing and you have guards out the wazoo.

Overall it's just a miserable experience for the axis, who have to contend with literally every system to hope to win.



Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 12:38:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

No surprise you are playing Soviets now! I wonder how many more Axis players gonna switch sides. I'm with you. 99% sure that AlbertN also. With current state of the game it is a miserable experience playing Axis. Running Soviets until you face a wall that you can not push and problems with supplies almost all of the time, while other side is swimming in them, even when they have much more men than historically. And even with less people they had to prepare for counter offensives for a few month, while in game they can attack and attack and attack without a problems in multiple places.


Albert's Soviet opponent is now almost 6 months behind the historical frontline. This game is more even but I'd say RedJohn is still just about ahead of the curve. So I don't see how either match is evidence that the game is unbalanced.

It's a difficult one as in the end you can't expect people to play a game as big as this in a situation that they are not finding enjoyable. But in my opinion at least there needs to be a bit more transparency if the Axis player is unwilling to play the second half of the campaign on the defensive retreating back towards Berlin if their opponent turns out to be of an equivalent skill level. I definitely think that if an Axis player throws in the towel in a situation where they are matching or even exceeding historical performance they kind of forfeit the right to comment on the game balance. Minsk/Pskov/Lvov all historically fall roughly 50 turns from this point. To get any meaningful data on game balance the match would need to be played out at least to that point.

Just my 2c. If the game ends here then well played to both players for getting to this point - the game looks like it was a real 'swinging match' through 42 which I imagine was a lot of fun. And thanks to RedJohn for the entertaining AAR.

[Edit] I guess one constructive suggestion I could make in terms of game 'enjoyment' (as opposed to game balance) would be that the Devs work on an 'early end' campaign where the sudden death thresholds are reduced so that both sides feel a little bit more in jeopardy in the first couple of years of the war. Or put another way you'd me making the VP system more 'sensitive' to differences of player skill so that you get more early outcomes for both sides. I guess though that the issue then is finding Soviet players willing to play a scenario where the likelihood is that the spend the vast majority of the game defending apart from the winter 41/42 offensive.



AlbertN -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 1:04:18 AM)

I'll chime in as I've been mentioned.

In my game I am objectively well positioned - despite me often venting frustration at this or that other game-mechanic. I am a vocal player and an opinionated one.
I am also honest enough to admit when I am wrong or I get proved wrong - as it happened in a few circumstances.

I think an amount of the 'goodies' I am at it is because MSAG - my worthy and valiant opponent - was at his first MP game. And that in the 1941 up to April '42 the game was under the 'Artillery' Patch that ... well it gave to the Germans a honest life. The Soviets bled.
Also I do play with a house rule (That I offered to my German opponent too where I am the Soviet). T1 pockets cannot be opened unless by combat. The game is too binary in 'surrender / not surrender'. That allows some better leeway to the Germans at the start. Not much but some. Mostly there is no dread that for 1 hex or a handful of extra MPs that Soviet unit sneaks out of a pocket and ... you know it. That is a house rule I suggest to everyone frankly.

But the general feeling is that the game is massively Pro-Soviet. It's just the general vibe, when I see the rapid downgrade of the German army artificially contructed; and in general that the cream of the cream of the Axis barely scrapes the top reaches of your generic Guard Infantry Corps... I know there is a problem.

Then we've the difference of perspective. I am playing '41 Russians knowing ... better times will come.
Axis in '43 knows only worse time are to come. No matter what you do or what happens.

And there is no system to upgrade your units, to stop their TOEs from downgrading, or to 'elite up' formations.
Soviets have guards, Axis could have some 'veteran' system.

Soviets can easily fine tune their artillery SU not to eat the guns that go to the Rifle Corps for instance. Amazing!
Axis cannot do similar feats.

Soviet logistics are kind of a joke.
Axis logistics are a pain in the backside.

I am no pro at this game but I can see the pattern myself.
And yes presently I've 0 inclination to start a new game as Axis.



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 3:46:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

No surprise you are playing Soviets now! I wonder how many more Axis players gonna switch sides. I'm with you. 99% sure that AlbertN also. With current state of the game it is a miserable experience playing Axis. Running Soviets until you face a wall that you can not push and problems with supplies almost all of the time, while other side is swimming in them, even when they have much more men than historically. And even with less people they had to prepare for counter offensives for a few month, while in game they can attack and attack and attack without a problems in multiple places.


Albert's Soviet opponent is now almost 6 months behind the historical frontline. This game is more even but I'd say RedJohn is still just about ahead of the curve. So I don't see how either match is evidence that the game is unbalanced.

It's a difficult one as in the end you can't expect people to play a game as big as this in a situation that they are not finding enjoyable. But in my opinion at least there needs to be a bit more transparency if the Axis player is unwilling to play the second half of the campaign on the defensive retreating back towards Berlin if their opponent turns out to be of an equivalent skill level. I definitely think that if an Axis player throws in the towel in a situation where they are matching or even exceeding historical performance they kind of forfeit the right to comment on the game balance. Minsk/Pskov/Lvov all historically fall roughly 50 turns from this point. To get any meaningful data on game balance the match would need to be played out at least to that point.

Just my 2c. If the game ends here then well played to both players for getting to this point - the game looks like it was a real 'swinging match' through 42 which I imagine was a lot of fun. And thanks to RedJohn for the entertaining AAR.

[Edit] I guess one constructive suggestion I could make in terms of game 'enjoyment' (as opposed to game balance) would be that the Devs work on an 'early end' campaign where the sudden death thresholds are reduced so that both sides feel a little bit more in jeopardy in the first couple of years of the war. Or put another way you'd me making the VP system more 'sensitive' to differences of player skill so that you get more early outcomes for both sides. I guess though that the issue then is finding Soviet players willing to play a scenario where the likelihood is that the spend the vast majority of the game defending apart from the winter 41/42 offensive.


The Soviets are ahead of time for every VP they've captured to date, if I recall correctly. I believe Joel has said I'm ahead in terms of OOB relative to history, and the Soviets behind in OOB relative to history, but it certainly doesn't feel like it.

Zaporozhye fell on October 14th 1943, according to the game. The Soviets right now are 6 hexes from it, 3 months ahead of schedule. Dnepropetrovsk fell on October 25th, the Soviets are 6 hexes from it. 3 months ahead of schedule. Kharkov fell twice, but falling permanently to the Soviets on August 23rd 1943. The Soviets are bordering it. Bryansk fell September 17th 1943, the Soviets are 4 hexes from it. Smolensk fell September 25th, the Soviets are 9 hexes from it. (Though for this one I could probably hold close to that, in fairness)

Orel fell 20 turns ahead of schedule, Rzhev was retaken 7 turns ahead of schedule, and Kursk a turn ahead of schedule.

I don't think this is a game the Soviets cannot lose, due to my HWM. I just really don't enjoy the idea of playing through 50 turns of firebrigading to find out. There is so little I can actually do besides build a line, set units to reserve, and hope for the best.



Stamb -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 7:43:59 AM)

Sammy5IsAlive
I understand what you are saying but more and more people will know how to really play as Soviets, and there is 1 simple rule - do not defend motherland - run. That is it.
Most games have 2.5 - 3 mil losses for the Soviet side until first winter. It means 2mil people more than historically. 2mil is around 200! rifle divisions that Soviet player have in their disposal. It is game breaking.
If there will be more AARs - more people, and hopefully developers, will see how unbalanced game is in terms of letting Soviets run, as production is irrelevant, VP will be taken back once they start to snowball.

Also you have to remember that some of that AARs were played with 06. 08. beta (arty patch). There were multiple suggestions in multiple topics what to do to prevent this. The only hope is that developers will see it, otherwise I hope that AI is really good as I will spend lots of turn with AI instead of a human.




loki100 -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 7:58:42 AM)

here's a shocking idea - don't play the Axis in the Grand Campaign unless you can manage a strategic defensive.

in the war the Axis had the initiative for 2 periods, from Oct 42 to the end they were on the strategic defensive.

So learn how to manage the situation against your HWM, its perfectly feasible to stall them into 1944 on a well set up defensive line, its then a case of managing the escalating disaster, even with a low HWM I have a shot at a win at the end of 1944



Stamb -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 8:00:12 AM)

Its not about a defense, there will be nothing to defend if you can not push.



loki100 -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 8:03:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Its not about a defense, there will be nothing to defend if you can not push.


so the challenge is to create a defense - its not that hard



Stamb -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 8:12:15 AM)

It is hard to advance, very hard. Try to play vs running Soviet without motorization and you will see. Unless you divert your panzer forces completely to concentrate on one direction then you will not achieve anything in a north nor in a center.

Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect that I am not and with a time, if there will be no changes, "looking for soviet player" topic will be so rare as healthy panzer division on map



loki100 -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 10:10:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

It is hard to advance, very hard. Try to play vs running Soviet without motorization and you will see. Unless you divert your panzer forces completely to concentrate on one direction then you will not achieve anything in a north nor in a center.

Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect that I am not and with a time, if there will be no changes, "looking for soviet player" topic will be so rare as healthy panzer division on map


ok I don't want to hijack this AAR but its one of 3 on the forum where the German player did well up to late 1942. In this and AlbertN's there seems to be utter bemusement that the strategic agency has changed. Rather than work with this and develop solutions it seems to be easier to announce the game is broken.

Now Sammy above made a good point, the Soviet player defends in 1941 and 1942 knowing things get better the German player defends from 1943 trying to stop it getting much worse. That is as much about mindset and as we know a lot of Axis players bail out the second something goes wrong in 1941 - so mitigation is not really how they see things.

Now mine is into late 1943 and I made a mess of late 41 (good opponent, patches that were pretty hard to play with) as HLYA puts it, this is also true:

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
... Knowing the rules and all the idiosyncrasies in the manual does not make a good ground commander. ...


so I make no claims to game play competence.

Now in my mind a balanced game has 3 natural end pts, late 42 if the Germans can escalate their advantages, early 1945 (the HWM test) is they can stop the Soviets escalating theirs and then Berlin to split the difference.

Now RedJohn has a massive advantage he is not exploiting. Moscow isn't an NSS. In a normal game the Soviets hit the first big logistics problem say Minsk-Kiev, it escalates on the 1941 border and by the time they enter Hungary or pass Warsaw it becomes a headache. Solvable but they really need to know how to set up the logistics systems for the Red Army and those are different than facing the Germans in 41-42.

So in this game each of those lines comes earlier, I actually can't see the Soviets coping past Warsaw with the NSS back at Saratov and Moscow not getting the NSS bonus for its railyards.

So is he stressing that weak spot? Not as far as I can see, he's fighting where the Soviets still have decent logistics, he's not hitting their railyards, he's not stripping out admin movement, he's not particularly concentrating on certain sectors to really stop the Soviets.

If he does those things, is it still tricky - yeah, and maybe I'm over-stating how much gains can come from them - but in this game in particular the Soviets are heading for a logistics nightmare and see little attempt to exploit that.

Till I do, I'd hold back on claims the game is unbalanced - learning how to play this phase is different and there are virtually no models to pick up and slot in.

Roger



Stamb -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 10:24:52 AM)

I have to admin that I, and other players, made multiple posts how to fix current balance (not saying that all of them are great ideas, just a proposition), it is not like I am saying what is broken without saying what can be done.

I think patches .06 .08 played a big role for Axis players that were using them. Now we have new patches and new AARs that start without 06 .08 and we will see how it goes.

Why Axis players are giving up after poor start? Because there is no reason to continue and play as there is no reserves for an Axis. Once defense is broken - it is clear field in front for the Soviet player. I started my first PvP game and I would also give up after turn 10 or so when I faced a wall of Soviets that is impossible to push. It is November at they are already at 4mil. The only reason for me to continue is to experience first winter vs human.

And for this AAR it would nice to see how Soviets supply system will work without NSS, as it is so rare to see fall of the Moscow. But as we can see - even without Moscow Axis player has no desire to continue this game.



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 8:50:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


So is he stressing that weak spot? Not as far as I can see, he's fighting where the Soviets still have decent logistics, he's not hitting their railyards, he's not stripping out admin movement, he's not particularly concentrating on certain sectors to really stop the Soviets.

If he does those things, is it still tricky - yeah, and maybe I'm over-stating how much gains can come from them - but in this game in particular the Soviets are heading for a logistics nightmare and see little attempt to exploit that.

Till I do, I'd hold back on claims the game is unbalanced - learning how to play this phase is different and there are virtually no models to pick up and slot in.

Roger


I don't have the choice of where the fighting starts, unless you want me to give up a significant number of hexes without a fight in Centre. Which I already did, before mud. I can only retreat so far before Smolensk is threatened.

I cannot concentrate on sectors, with what forces do you suppose I do this with? The forces in the Baltics defending against a soviet breakthrough? The forces in the south defending against a soviet breakthrough? The forces at Kharkov defending against a soviet breakthrough? Do I make ridiculous offensives and get counterattacked with his own reserves? I am legitimately asking, it is my first 43 after all.

I could use my luftwaffe to bomb railyards, but experience as the soviets tell me it's completely pointless. A level 1 railyard is more than enough to supply troops because you can stack front HQs on it. So yes, I suppose I could divert the airforce from it's mission trying to eradicate the Osinovets fortress (and free up 4 divisions) to bomb railyards, but I would think it would have little to no effect.

Stripping out admin movement is a legitimate thing to bring up but I'm not all that experienced with it.



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/2/2022 8:52:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


Till I do, I'd hold back on claims the game is unbalanced - learning how to play this phase is different and there are virtually no models to pick up and slot in.

Roger


There is a reason I have a 100% winrate as the Soviets, and it's not because of skill. [:)]



loki100 -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/4/2022 9:15:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


So is he stressing that weak spot? Not as far as I can see, he's fighting where the Soviets still have decent logistics, he's not hitting their railyards, he's not stripping out admin movement, he's not particularly concentrating on certain sectors to really stop the Soviets.

If he does those things, is it still tricky - yeah, and maybe I'm over-stating how much gains can come from them - but in this game in particular the Soviets are heading for a logistics nightmare and see little attempt to exploit that.

Till I do, I'd hold back on claims the game is unbalanced - learning how to play this phase is different and there are virtually no models to pick up and slot in.

Roger


I don't have the choice of where the fighting starts, unless you want me to give up a significant number of hexes without a fight in Centre. Which I already did, before mud. I can only retreat so far before Smolensk is threatened.

I cannot concentrate on sectors, with what forces do you suppose I do this with? The forces in the Baltics defending against a soviet breakthrough? The forces in the south defending against a soviet breakthrough? The forces at Kharkov defending against a soviet breakthrough? Do I make ridiculous offensives and get counterattacked with his own reserves? I am legitimately asking, it is my first 43 after all.

I could use my luftwaffe to bomb railyards, but experience as the soviets tell me it's completely pointless. A level 1 railyard is more than enough to supply troops because you can stack front HQs on it. So yes, I suppose I could divert the airforce from it's mission trying to eradicate the Osinovets fortress (and free up 4 divisions) to bomb railyards, but I would think it would have little to no effect.

Stripping out admin movement is a legitimate thing to bring up but I'm not all that experienced with it.



fine, but then you make the choice to fight where the Sovieta are strong and to get strung out across the front. Those are choices, and you set aside the ability to use your massive logistics advantage work in your favour. By 1943 the Germans were at that most dangerous when the Soviets were stretched and at their most vulnerable when the Soviets could concentrate - so given the VP situation in your game, yeah, give up Smolensk for the chance to get stuff refitted, to get the Soviets at the edge of their supply net and be able to hit back with real power.

Look at Xhoel's 1945 AAR for an idea of the rewards that come from concentration and focus on a small sector of the Soviet advance



Stamb -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/4/2022 9:25:31 AM)

This is also the thread that can show if there are, and where, limits for the Soviet supply system without a Moscow as NSS.



ToxicThug11 -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/9/2022 3:15:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


So is he stressing that weak spot? Not as far as I can see, he's fighting where the Soviets still have decent logistics, he's not hitting their railyards, he's not stripping out admin movement, he's not particularly concentrating on certain sectors to really stop the Soviets.

If he does those things, is it still tricky - yeah, and maybe I'm over-stating how much gains can come from them - but in this game in particular the Soviets are heading for a logistics nightmare and see little attempt to exploit that.

Till I do, I'd hold back on claims the game is unbalanced - learning how to play this phase is different and there are virtually no models to pick up and slot in.

Roger


I don't have the choice of where the fighting starts, unless you want me to give up a significant number of hexes without a fight in Centre. Which I already did, before mud. I can only retreat so far before Smolensk is threatened.

I cannot concentrate on sectors, with what forces do you suppose I do this with? The forces in the Baltics defending against a soviet breakthrough? The forces in the south defending against a soviet breakthrough? The forces at Kharkov defending against a soviet breakthrough? Do I make ridiculous offensives and get counterattacked with his own reserves? I am legitimately asking, it is my first 43 after all.

I could use my luftwaffe to bomb railyards, but experience as the soviets tell me it's completely pointless. A level 1 railyard is more than enough to supply troops because you can stack front HQs on it. So yes, I suppose I could divert the airforce from it's mission trying to eradicate the Osinovets fortress (and free up 4 divisions) to bomb railyards, but I would think it would have little to no effect.

Stripping out admin movement is a legitimate thing to bring up but I'm not all that experienced with it.



fine, but then you make the choice to fight where the Sovieta are strong and to get strung out across the front. Those are choices, and you set aside the ability to use your massive logistics advantage work in your favour. By 1943 the Germans were at that most dangerous when the Soviets were stretched and at their most vulnerable when the Soviets could concentrate - so given the VP situation in your game, yeah, give up Smolensk for the chance to get stuff refitted, to get the Soviets at the edge of their supply net and be able to hit back with real power.

Look at Xhoel's 1945 AAR for an idea of the rewards that come from concentration and focus on a small sector of the Soviet advance


Fully agreed. I'm sure if I ever get to 1943 (or even 1942) in a Soviet game I will learn how powerful the Germans are.



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/19/2022 2:54:43 PM)

Frontline as of turn 114. Bryansk falls. OOB is 3.5m on map, vs Soviets 5.5m.

I did elect to continue the game after being swayed by the sweet words of others stating that the soviets supply should start facing serious issues past Minsk.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/8A6D5A6EA7E442F8A9C96A99EB2C001B.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/20/2022 1:02:47 AM)

Turn 124. Lots of tank battles south-east of Zaporozhye to try and free isolated units.

The Soviet juggernaut continues it's advance. On map forces dip below 3.45m germans, 700,000 axis allies.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/2992A78F3ABE4652ABA1837B8B6804E6.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: "I have no idea what I'm doing" Bread (Axis) v Fracas (Soviet) (2/21/2022 4:29:30 PM)

Turn 116. Italy surrenders.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/5AA9FEFBE03F47788382AFBBC3494C1C.jpg[/image]



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