New patch (dumb question) (Full Version)

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Zovs -> New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 1:41:37 AM)

This is probably a dumb question so forgive my ignorance.

Will there be another beta patch c?




RangerJoe -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 1:44:00 AM)

Probably not.




Sardaukar -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 1:49:15 AM)

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.




Tanaka -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 2:26:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.


So he does still live! Well that is good to know! At least that means there is at least a 1% chance of any kind of update haha!

As far as crowdfunding goes I think most of us would just pay for someone to keep updating the game. Is michaelm75au the only one capable of doing so?




Zovs -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 10:19:35 AM)

Thanks all.

Personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed. What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.

That is just my very uneducated swag...

If the main programmer is working on a current new release and supporting it, it gets much harder with he passage of time to go back to the original program and pick it up again. This is just based on my current experience based on my 'professional web development career', I last worked on three projects for a company in 2019, of those three projects one was 2019, another 2017 and the other 2011. Evening go back to the 2019 project I have forgotten most of the details of that web app and it would take 2-3 months to get reacquainted with the code. I think it would be even harder with game code because for example for WITP-AE some of the code probably goes back to 2004 or before.

Think of the original game from SSI called Steel Panthers written in 1995. I doubt Gary Grigsby would remember code from 25+ years ago, so he would most likely just start new from scratch.

All this is just my uninformed guess.

But thanks again for the input and most likely we won't see a new patch.




btd64 -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 10:45:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.


So he does still live! Well that is good to know! At least that means there is at least a 1% chance of any kind of update haha!

As far as crowdfunding goes I think most of us would just pay for someone to keep updating the game. Is michaelm75au the only one capable of doing so?



No, but I'll bet that they are all busy with other things....GP




Ian R -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 1:10:54 PM)

How much are you personally willing to commit to crowd funding, Tanaka? $1000? I suspect to get a meaningful amount, it would require 50-100 funders to put in enough to buy a sufficient block of programmer time to get things moving.

What crowd funding model/software do you suggest? You will need one that accommodates internationally recognised trust fund protocols.

Have you secured Licensing agreements with all of Matrix, 2X3, and Henderson Field to proceed with this project?

Let us know when you have all the ducks aligned, because this is not that simple.




mind_messing -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 2:06:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

michaelm75au (bless his soul) who made the beta patches, is working on Command: Modern Operations, so probably not.


So he does still live! Well that is good to know! At least that means there is at least a 1% chance of any kind of update haha!



No.

Like it or not, AE is a legacy product now.

quote:

As far as crowdfunding goes I think most of us would just pay for someone to keep updating the game. Is michaelm75au the only one capable of doing so?


Do you have any idea of the costs associated with software development, even when working even with a lone developer?




BBfanboy -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 7:19:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

How much are you personally willing to commit to crowd funding, Tanaka? $1000? I suspect to get a meaningful amount, it would require 50-100 funders to put in enough to buy a sufficient block of programmer time to get things moving.

What crowd funding model/software do you suggest? You will need one that accommodates internationally recognised trust fund protocols.

Have you secured Licensing agreements with all of Matrix, 2X3, and Henderson Field to proceed with this project?

Let us know when you have all the ducks aligned, because this is not that simple.

The input from Alfred was that something in the range of 5-7 million dollars would be required. We are not going to have that many $1000 donors. We need a Jeff Bazos to get hooked on the game. I'll mention it to him next time I see him in person!




Yaab -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 7:26:02 PM)

Jeff Bezos is propping up Star Citizen as we speak.




Zovs -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 7:40:29 PM)

Again, personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed.

What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.

That is just my very uneducated swag...

If the main programmer is working on a current new release and supporting it, it gets much harder with he passage of time to go back to the original program and pick it up again. This is just based on my current experience based on my 'professional web development career', I last worked on three projects for a company in 2019, of those three projects one was 2019, another 2017 and the other 2011. Evening go back to the 2019 project I have forgotten most of the details of that web app and it would take 2-3 months to get reacquainted with the code. I think it would be even harder with game code because for example for WITP-AE some of the code probably goes back to 2004 or before.

Think of the original game from SSI called Steel Panthers written in 1995. I doubt Gary Grigsby would remember code from 25+ years ago, so he would most likely just start new from scratch.

All this is just my uninformed guess.

But thanks again for the input and most likely we won't see a new patch.




BBfanboy -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 7:54:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Again, personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed.

What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.

That is just my very uneducated swag...

If the main programmer is working on a current new release and supporting it, it gets much harder with he passage of time to go back to the original program and pick it up again. This is just based on my current experience based on my 'professional web development career', I last worked on three projects for a company in 2019, of those three projects one was 2019, another 2017 and the other 2011. Evening go back to the 2019 project I have forgotten most of the details of that web app and it would take 2-3 months to get reacquainted with the code. I think it would be even harder with game code because for example for WITP-AE some of the code probably goes back to 2004 or before.

Think of the original game from SSI called Steel Panthers written in 1995. I doubt Gary Grigsby would remember code from 25+ years ago, so he would most likely just start new from scratch.

All this is just my uninformed guess.

But thanks again for the input and most likely we won't see a new patch.

I never thought of Grigsby as a coder as much as a game designer - developing the flow charts that show how the game is set up and what happens in each step of the chart. The coding is done from there by dedicated programmers. Sometimes they can lift routines they have already developed for other programs and use them with little modification in the new game, shortening the development time.

The hard part on this one would be developing a responsive AI (that analyses situations like a human player) and getting copywrite permissions to use stuff like the excellent database of WITP-AE (which would save thousands of hours of research).




mind_messing -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 8:09:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Jeff Bezos is propping up Star Citizen as we speak.



Star Citizen is definitely not an model to aspire to.

In effectively any other setting, having a project with that level of spend attached and having delivered that little would have had serious consequences.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Again, personally I don't think any crowd funding will work or would necessary be needed.

What Matrix/Slitherline would need is a capable volunteer programmer, probably a C++ developer/software engineer to step up, sign a NDA and then spend 3-6 months (guessing as a minimum) of understanding the code to make any basic (bugs) changes. He would also need a project manager resource from Matrix/Slitherline to coordinate his efforts and then an alpha/beta test team to test those changes.



That's a fantasy.

There's no chance you're getting anyone with any experience to sign on to do this for no remuneration, and there's no financial sense in a patch for a game that's already pushing a decade old.

With a project like this, someone who doesn't know what they're doing tinkering with the code is a hundred times worse than doing nothing at all. Amplified for someone removed from the design process.

Go ask AndyMac (who was on the dev team working on ground combat) how much of the naval routines he understands.




Zovs -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/23/2021 8:13:05 PM)

Hence I doubt any patch will be forthcoming any time soon.




Alpha77 -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/24/2021 6:44:16 AM)

So AE is a "legacy product" ... the price does not suggest so however.

I bought 2 other legacy products 2 years ago (Nap+Emp TW) and they cost 9,99€ both together.
These also have a fair share of problems, but for the low price they are ok I think..







Yaab -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/24/2021 6:51:59 AM)

Well, WITP:AE is still in " New Releases" category...




Maallon -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/24/2021 7:54:35 AM)

Legacy product in software development only means that a product is outdated(be it because its old or it was replaced), it has not necessarily a implication on the price of the product.
Normally old products are discontinued or heavily reduced in price, but not every product benefits from that. There are even cases where legacy products got even more expensive.
As I don't have the data, I cannot tell you if WITPAE would benefit from a price reduction. But it seems like matrix is thinking that it is not worth it, except for the occasional sale.





RangerJoe -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/24/2021 11:45:54 AM)

Antiques are worth more . . . [;)]




Jellicoe -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/24/2021 1:47:25 PM)

quote:

Antiques are worth more . . .


And like any good antique you just want to stand back and admire WITPAE and say things like 'look at the craftmanship on that', 'they don't make them like that anymore', 'think of the hours of labour that went to creating that masterpiece' and maybe stroke it lovingly




Zovs -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/24/2021 5:00:58 PM)

I personally don't look at WITP-AE as an antique, there are some many map and art mods that it gives the old beauty more than just a face lift and a new evening gown, sparkly shoes too boot (pun intended).




Sardaukar -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/25/2021 10:33:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Antiques are worth more . . . [;)]


I wish it was true with us too [:D][8D]




btd64 -> RE: New patch (dumb question) (11/25/2021 10:40:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Antiques are worth more . . . [;)]


I wish it was true with us too [:D][8D]



With our collective knowledge we, as older people, are worth more.[:)][8D]....GP




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