RE: Recent Artillery Changes...

RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (Full Version)

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DesertedFox -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 8:40:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN For all I know the game is designed to be played on even if Moscow OR Leningrad fall. But we just have polar perspectives there. To me if Leningrad is German and Germany wins then I must be playing Road to Leningrad scenario. That is my logic. So you are saying that examples given above where Leningrad and or Moscow have been captured under the current patch are evidence that the Russians are OP and the .06 beta needs to be reinstated. Yes, that is exactly what you are saying. quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN quote: And, yes, Germany was definitely nerfed (the last thing the game needed IMHO). +1 So where do you think the line should be drawn for Germany's advance to be stooped and declare the game balanced? Maybe Gorky?

Jango32 -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 8:55:51 AM)
It is worth pointing out that none of those either started on the latest patch or made their achievements with it.

DesertedFox -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 8:57:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jango32 It is worth pointing out that none of those either started on the latest patch or made their made achievements with it. Yes, but I think they all started before the 2.06 beta patch was rolled out, and AlbertN has had no trouble rolling up the Russians prior to the broken .06 beta. By the looks of it, he did his major game damage when the game did favour the Russians which was any patch prior to .06. AlbetN's game started way way way before he .06 rollout. quote: Frontline at T53 - 21 Jun 1942: was posted on Dec 4th.

RedJohn -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 9:07:43 AM)
For what it's worth, my game against Fracas is the only one that I've had such roaring success in. I have had numerous other games end (albeit for a variety of reasons) in my defeat/resignation. I think the artillery changes were warranted but, having played both sides, were slightly overtuned. It was a bit galling seeing Germany rout 3 stacks of RDs with full TOE, in heavy snow, in blizzard, primarily because 50-70% of the men got disrupted and then the eventual routing making me lose tens of thousands of men. I think that a good german vs a good soviet, the soviet will win more often than not. 'cuz the Germans need to know every facet of the game to stand a chance, pretty much, whilst the soviets logistics amounts to supply priority 4 n brrrrrrrrrrr etc. That's what my experience as both sides has been. I've never actually lost a game as the Soviets yet. I don't think that's a testament to my skill, of course. I've lost plenty as the Germans.

AlbertN -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 11:07:33 AM)
Factually that game started with the beta patch with artyllery fix. Please do not assume to know things that you do not. We were having a start and once the beta piatch hit we restarted as we were at t4. Nor I feel my ongoing game an Axis victorious situation. I may have traded Stalingrado for Leningrad in 42.

DesertedFox -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 11:55:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN Factually that game started with the beta patch with artyllery fix. Please do not assume to know things that you do not. We were having a start and once the beta piatch hit we restarted as we were at t4. Nor I feel my ongoing game an Axis victorious situation. I may have traded Stalingrado for Leningrad in 42. https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5081375&mpage=3&key= Posted Sept 28th. Turn 41. Started well under the OP soviet patch. quote: ORIGINAL: RedJohn I have have a high water mark of 676. I can't be bothered doing the math, but solely by VP I believe I have pretty much won unless he gets the +6 VP everywhere. Or not, I don't really know. VPs are boring anyway, I am excited to see the 43/44/45 red army! If the game is biased towards the Russians now where are the AARs to support it. Luckily, the Devs have decided that .06 was OP for the Germans. Thus the lunatics are not running the asylum. If you were in charge, well, yes then the lunatics would be running the asylum. Of course, you know more about the game than the Devs. Your constant moaning about increasing Romanian NM based now on some board games "cherry-picked " by you tells it all. Jubjub vs Beethoven started under,06 and it was a complete disaster, now at or on about turn 10 it's on the latest patch Beethoven might be able to hold but it certainly isn't a given. When I say hold on, I mean take the game in 42, a win is still a pipe dream.

Jango32 -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 12:02:56 PM)
You know that AlbertN was talking about his own AAR in that message, right?

DesertedFox -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 1:05:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jango32 You know that AlbertN was talking about his own AAR in that message, right? That is what we call a rhetorical question.

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 1:24:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN I even proposed to HYLA to play as Soviet against him, to learn. Though he politely declined. (As I well assume it would not exactly be an enjoyable game on his end either but that was with the previous official patch) I know I've time for 1 extra game and I want to feel the Soviet side - precisely with scope and purpose to understand if Germans are crippled as I think them to be. I declined because of a skill mismatch. Not because one side is greater than the other. Are they, Germany, overpowered? No. Are the Soviets underpowered, No. I feel the game is pretty balanced. This whole thread boils down to a skill match and if there is a deviation in that skill match you will see the differences in the game.

DesertedFox -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 1:37:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain I declined because of a skill mismatch. Not because one side is greater than the other. Are they, Germany, overpowered? No. Are the Soviets underpowered, No. I feel the game is pretty balanced. This whole thread boils down to a skill match and if there is a deviation in that skill match you will see the differences in the game. I agree and disagree with you HLYA. I agree the game has the best balance to date. It may still need to be tweaked again but right now it's as good as it gets. quote: This whole thread boils down to a skill match I disagree. This thread boils down to a few people who can't see the wood for the trees, and will not accept under any circumstances, including the Devs saying .06 was OP for arty. (I think he meant .06, .08 toned the arty down I thought). quote: ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins It's worth noting 1.02.08 Beta wasn't a stable baseline, in other words, we knew that artillery had been tuned up too far and we were working to tune it back down. I had actually made an offer about a week ago to play Germany against an experienced Soviet player who has posts and AARs here, but he couldn't fit me in and recommended I look for an StB game which I have since found. I will take up the German mantle as time allows.

AlbertN -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 2:32:02 PM)
@HYLA That is what I meant, that you'd not have enjoyed the game due to you kicking my posterior from point A to point B ^^

RedJohn -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 2:33:39 PM)
AARs are a chore and I don't bother for most of them. But anecdotally, I've only had one soviet player resign (capt zero) against me after I encircled something like 500k infront of Moscow at turn 10. Having been in the exact same situation like three times as the soviets myself, I thought it was very premature. I've played through two barbarossas in the artillery patch, one vs an inexperienced player and an experienced player. The only significant difference was that he broke through an extensively fortified Crimea relatively easily. But I remain confident in winning still. The inexperienced player lost due to not being able to do logistics very well.

Erik Rutins -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 2:39:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertedFox If you were in charge, well, yes then the lunatics would be running the asylum. Of course, you know more about the game than the Devs. Your constant moaning about increasing Romanian NM based now on some board games "cherry-picked " by you tells it all. Please discuss and disagree without being disagreeable. Civil discussion is required by the forum rules and personal attacks will lead to warnings and bans. Keep in mind that it's quite possible to disagree 100% but still be polite about it. Regards, - Erik

Erik Rutins -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 2:41:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertedFox I disagree. This thread boils down to a few people who can't see the wood for the trees, and will not accept under any circumstances, including the Devs saying .06 was OP for arty. (I think he meant .06, .08 toned the arty down I thought). Artillery was indeed inadvertently overpowered in .06. We made some adjustments in .08 but they did not go far enough and we found the real issue and resolve it for the .11 official update. We'll be continuing to review, adjust and polish the combat and campaign balance as time goes on, but we're especially interested in comparisons to previous official updates more than to beta updates. Regards, - Erik

GibsonPete -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 6:30:51 PM)
Erik Rutins +1... I fail to understand the unwarranted personal attacks of late. I believe that if artillery needs further tweaking it will happen. I have always enjoyed AlbertN's perspective and insight in the game. We do not always agree but I understand his reasoning.

GibsonPete -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 6:31:33 PM)
Double post...Oops.

DesertedFox -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/15/2021 11:10:38 PM)
This thread was started by Sauron with concerns over the new patch .11. that is moving the game in a forward and positive direction. The two people hijacked the thread regurgitating that the current patch was unnecessary and the old one was spot on. quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN quote: And, yes, Germany was definitely nerfed (the last thing the game needed IMHO). +1 This is not moving the game forward or in a positive direction. The old patch had been declared dead and done by the Devs yet some people don't want the game moving forward or in a positive direction.

GibsonPete -> RE: Recent Artillery Changes... (12/16/2021 11:08:38 AM)
DesertedFox I will agree the game is moving forward. I also believe the Developers are not finished perfecting the game. Do not be surprised when artillery is given several additional tweaks.

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