supply chain (Full Version)

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tonyscrase -> supply chain (12/20/2021 11:46:44 AM)

I have built up a chain of depots but I am only getting a fraction of the freight I am expecting.
All linked by a double rail
Starting with Katowice - I was expecting them to send out 30K (which I think is the capacity of a double line railway) It has only sent out 15k WHY
Next Lvov set at 1 priority (6 repaired railyards) it received 4k from Katowice only sent out 200 ?
next Proskurov (2 repaired railyards) set at 2 priority NOTHING FROM Katowice or Lvov (but some from Bucharest !!)
Next Vinnista level 3 priority (18,000 railyard capacity)received only 2.9k from Katowice should this be higher !!
And one level 4 priority depot but that was only built last turn received 1k
Most of the freight for 1st panzer army is coming from Odessa using 10k trucks

Katowice sent out 15k according to the in hex info
does not seem to have supplied individual units
sent 4k to Lvov, 2.9 to Vinnista and 1k to my priority 4 depot Where is the remaining 7.1k

THANK YOU

[image]local://upfiles/57606/ACE09F9839144AF29B4FE890244CCDD8.jpg[/image]



Yogol -> RE: supply chain (12/20/2021 1:22:22 PM)

You should be able to see that in INFO SCREENS > ShowLogistics Phase Report (the icon next to the replacement icon on the top row) > "Supply".

Unfortunately, this list isn't sorted per city, so you'll have to check it all to see the lines from Katowice.



DeletedUser44 -> RE: supply chain (12/20/2021 7:45:50 PM)

It's all game magic and/or "clearly documented" in the manual. (deliberate sarcasm)

Because I look at things like this in the manual (pg 304) (which I have yet to see in the game) and just shake my head.

quote:

For example, an undamaged level 2 railyard with 20k
capacity (10 x 2) will show a value of 20 in the rail circle
when in F2 mode. If this has been used for freight or
units then it will be reduced (subject to rounding).


I, like you, have all this freight piled up, but cannot see where my rail-yard capacity has been fully utilized to transport it. (if it had been used, according to the manual, then I should see a significant reduction in the numbers displayed while in F2 mode, correct?)

It doesn't look like any of the Berlin railyard capacity has been used for transportation of freight to me. (see picture)

Let me get my popcorn and see if Loki (both the expert on all things related to the manual and logistics) cares to elaborate?

EDIT:

Replaced image to include one showing rail usage tooltip "Axis Rail Usage 5416".
(looks to me that neither railyard capacity nor rails have been fully utilized)

To be fair, there are some scattered railyards that seem to indicate "some" freight usage, such as:

Rostock:30->29
Stettin:30->29
Frankfurt:1400->1399
St Poelton:20->19
Graz:20->19
Trappau:20->19
Breslau:30->29
Dresden:40->39
Cottbus:20->19

But it appears they are just scratching the surface as far as fully utilizing the available freight transport capacity.

[image]local://upfiles/80384/D5D1A8466C014A4A968F81E957E43868.jpg[/image]



Stamb -> RE: supply chain (12/20/2021 8:36:45 PM)

Sauron_II
while i also do not understand current logistic and why things work like they do, i think you should show some respect to a loki as he really know what he is talking about.
Yes he made a manual and he is still giving suggestions on a forum basically on every topic. While matrix could hire some contractor that would make a manual and say goodbye.
Even writing a small documentation is pain in the ass (as a software developer myself i hate to do it). And here we have 500 pages! Try to organize it and then keep up to date.

I was asking a lot of questions about logistics and while i got the answers - i still do not think that it is working correctly.
Even loki himself in some of his AAR, probably it was an old one, was using simple 0 1 2 3 4 and super depots. And after it he switched to pull/push strategy (which makes no sense to me).
And i asked loki to send some of his saves so i can observe his setup. And he did. And he is able to supply all of the armies in the winter (not a first one, it was winter 43 or 44) + LW on the front.
So he really knows how this works and i would outsource my logistics to him for each of my turn in PvP.


I also find it very strange that rails usage is always 5416. In every place on double line, except few parts.



DeletedUser44 -> RE: supply chain (12/20/2021 9:19:09 PM)

Another issue:

Riga(P3) -> Pskov(P4)
Riga(P3) -> Mogilev(P4)
---------------------
It appears that Riga did forward -
3444 freight to Pskov (from viewing Pskov's tooltip) &
1653 freight to Mogilev (from viewing Mogilev's tooltip)

But it did not impact the "Capacity" tooltip (which is something equally baffling - with all the incoming/outgoing freight passing through Riga - why is this not reflected in a deduction of remaining capacity????)

You would think that at least the freight sent/received via rail should be reflected in Riga's tooltip and displayed as:
"60000 (54903)" (remember, Riga sent 3444 freight to Pskov via rail & 1653 freight to Mogilev)

Only thing I have seen impact "Capacity" are adjustments from a HQ or railyard damage.

EDIT:

Curious that Riga's tooltip shows it sent out 14275 freight, but I could only account for the 3444 freight received by Pskov & 1653 received by Mogilev, unless it was somehow consumed by local aircraft. (there are NO red line to/from Riga)


[image]local://upfiles/80384/A46C604AD8EE438282C299C0712494A7.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: supply chain (12/20/2021 9:44:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

It's all game magic and/or "clearly documented" in the manual. (deliberate sarcasm)

Because I look at things like this in the manual (pg 304) (which I have yet to see in the game) and just shake my head.

quote:

For example, an undamaged level 2 railyard with 20k
capacity (10 x 2) will show a value of 20 in the rail circle
when in F2 mode. If this has been used for freight or
units then it will be reduced (subject to rounding).


I, like you, have all this freight piled up, but cannot see where my rail-yard capacity has been fully utilized to transport it. (if it had been used, according to the manual, then I should see a significant reduction in the numbers displayed while in F2 mode, correct?)

It doesn't look like any of the Berlin railyard capacity has been used for transportation of freight to me. (see picture)

Let me get my popcorn and see if Loki (both the expert on all things related to the manual and logistics) cares to elaborate?

...


Look, I realise that being needlessly rude is the way to go, and that if only you'd be involved in the testing/documentation then it would be perfect ... but

ok usage shown (as per the manual) is basically last turn /6 (there are a few quirks), so if you see 5416 then last turn's usage on that line was around 30k (assuming its a dual track)

second, and as stated many times, freight returns its 'trains'/railyard capacity at the end of the turn so of course its mostly back at the source, that is why we use intermediate depots to capture the freight that can't make the journey to the front lines. This is different to entrained units that do retain their 'trains'/railyard capacity till they are actually detrained - and yes this does show

depot capacity is just that, the max the depot can receive/send on or store, adjusted down by damage and up by HQ placement

Roger



overkill01 -> RE: supply chain (12/21/2021 5:54:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

ok usage shown (as per the manual) is basically last turn /6 (there are a few quirks), so if you see 5416 then last turn's usage on that line was around 30k (assuming its a dual track)




Why exacly is usage shown devided by 6 ?
Does it represent trains returning to their point of origin or something?



loki100 -> RE: supply chain (12/21/2021 6:39:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: overkill01


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

ok usage shown (as per the manual) is basically last turn /6 (there are a few quirks), so if you see 5416 then last turn's usage on that line was around 30k (assuming its a dual track)




Why exacly is usage shown devided by 6 ?
Does it represent trains returning to their point of origin or something?


its to represent congestion, trains out of place, low level chaos and so on.

why /6, I guess because it gives a relationship that 'works' - I don't think its anything but a number added to reflect this residual impact

Note that usage triggered by either partisan or air interdiction or usage >30k (dual track) clears more slowly (if I recall /4) to reflect the extent that the local rail net is out of control or has endured low level but very specific damage



GibsonPete -> RE: supply chain (12/21/2021 3:28:13 PM)

Thank you Loki100.



M60A3TTS -> RE: supply chain (12/22/2021 4:42:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb
I also find it very strange that rails usage is always 5416. In every place on double line, except few parts.


You should just forget that number exists. During Beta there was discussion that that info should just be removed as it really provides no practical value and just confuses everyone. I think it was there originally to help the devs develop the logistics model. Again, to the player it really means nothing of consequence.



loki100 -> RE: supply chain (12/22/2021 7:56:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tonyscrase

I have built up a chain of depots but I am only getting a fraction of the freight I am expecting.
All linked by a double rail
Starting with Katowice - I was expecting them to send out 30K (which I think is the capacity of a double line railway) It has only sent out 15k WHY
Next Lvov set at 1 priority (6 repaired railyards) it received 4k from Katowice only sent out 200 ?
next Proskurov (2 repaired railyards) set at 2 priority NOTHING FROM Katowice or Lvov (but some from Bucharest !!)
Next Vinnista level 3 priority (18,000 railyard capacity)received only 2.9k from Katowice should this be higher !!
And one level 4 priority depot but that was only built last turn received 1k
Most of the freight for 1st panzer army is coming from Odessa using 10k trucks

Katowice sent out 15k according to the in hex info
does not seem to have supplied individual units
sent 4k to Lvov, 2.9 to Vinnista and 1k to my priority 4 depot Where is the remaining 7.1k

THANK YOU
...


this question has got rather lost, so some ideas:

a) that green rail line is a worry, I'm of the view that a properly working rail line should be yellow. So you are not sending much freight.
b) realise this is the SW Front scenario so not sure if the problem is in the Reich. Katowice is the NSS so what that sends determines everything else. You say it sent 15k which sounds ok if a bit low.
b1) the rail line has a capacity but the other part of the equation is the railyard capacity, so just because a line has a capacity of 30k doesn't mean you have the trains (see some of the other posts in this thread)
c) now that might be as good as it gets
d) but I think you need more depots. I'd have pri 4 about 5 hexes behind the front on the rails in addition to the one you have at the front. A new depot usually takes 1-2 turns to get freight in. I'd keep Proskurov at pri 2.
e) I wouldn't have the LW up around Kiev, pull it back to Vinnitsa
f) generally, every feasible location should have a depot, that will help in a few ways. Generates places for the freight to reach, means that units at the front have intermediate supply traces and so on




Stamb -> RE: supply chain (12/22/2021 8:56:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb
I also find it very strange that rails usage is always 5416. In every place on double line, except few parts.


You should just forget that number exists. During Beta there was discussion that that info should just be removed as it really provides no practical value and just confuses everyone. I think it was there originally to help the devs develop the logistics model. Again, to the player it really means nothing of consequence.


I think it is quite useful when players see such info, as somebody might pay attention to it and find a possible bug. Double rail line capacity is 30k which is cleared by 6 and gives around 5k. So it means that that line was used up to a limit without a penalties for SMP. Thats make sense for me now.



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