Pilots Skills (Full Version)

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Zovs -> Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:00:33 PM)

Per the manual I only see this:

13 distinct Sub Skills are also displayed and tracked for each pilot.


[img]https://i.imgur.com/eWSDr6Uh.png[/img]

But when I bring up the pilots list I see things that I am not familiar with nor defined in the manual. Being that I am a land lover and not experienced in the Pacific War as much as I am in the Eastern Front could I get an assist to the definition or meaning of some of these

I get the following: Rank, Name, Fat, Mis, Kills, and Exp, but what exactly are the rest?

Air (would this be air to air combat?)
NavB (Naval Bombing, i.e. against ships?)
NavT (Naval Torpedo/Transport?)
NavS (Naval Spotting?)
Recon I get
ASW I get
Trans I get must be transportation
GrdB (Ground Bombing)
LowN (Low Naval?, whatever does that mean?)
LowG (Low Ground?, whatever does that mean?)
Staf must be strafing
Defn (Defending? against what?)
Delay (Delay of what?)



Platoonist -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:16:34 PM)

From a old post by TheElf.

Exp: An Average of all skills
Air: Air to Air Specifically Attack. Defense is covered in Defn below
NavB: Bombing Ships Yes, Level and Dive Bombing
NavT: Torpedo bombing ships
NavS: Searching at Sea Yes, but there is a reduced chance a sub will be sighted
Recn: Reconnisance
ASW: ASW Same as NavS above but better at spotting/attacking subs
Tran: Air transport
GrdB: Bombing ground targets Includes AF Attack, and City attack
LowN: Attacking ships with bombs at 100'. Primarily to provide distinction for Attack bombers
LowG: Attacking ground targets with bombs at 100'.
Straf: strafe
Defn: self defense For all A/C Bomber or Fighters



Ian R -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:16:52 PM)

What is your question ?



rockmedic109 -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:18:53 PM)

LowN is Low Altitude naval attack. I believe the cut off between normal and low is below 2000'

LowG Same as above for Ground attack.

Defn Defense. Defending self against attacks.

Delay is Arrival Time in theatre. Used in the Editor to set when a pilot arrives.


While writing this there were a bunch of replies. Platoonist says the altitude cut off is 100'. My information could very well be outdated {like me} or just completely wrong.



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:34:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Per the manual I only see this:

13 distinct Sub Skills are also displayed and tracked for each pilot.

But when I bring up the pilots list I see things that I am not familiar with nor defined in the manual. Being that I am a land lover and not experienced in the Pacific War as much as I am in the Eastern Front could I get an assist to the definition or meaning of some of these

I get the following: Rank, Name, Fat, Mis, Kills, and Exp, but what exactly are the rest?

Air (would this be air to air combat?)
Yes, air combat and to a certain extent airmanship - knowing the aircraft well enough to deal with problems and get the most out of it offensively

NavB (Naval Bombing, i.e. against ships?) Yes, bombing ship targets from 2000' or higher

NavT (Naval Torpedo/Transport?) Yes - using torpedoes from any altitude. The attack profile will make the bomber drop to 200' to drop the torpedo and then return it to the set altitude

NavS (Naval Spotting?) Yes, Naval Search. Not only the chance to spot the enemy ships/subs, but the higher the skill the better the details of the spotting. Also a chance of an attack being made on one of the spotted vessels.

Recon I get Another one where higher skill brings better spotting detail and quality

ASW I get This skill includes both searching for subs and attacking them. The NavS, NavB and LowN skills are not used when attacking subs at sea if the aircraft are on ASW patrol

Trans I get must be transportation Yes, Air Transport. Bombers can do this too, except for the troop carrying part.

GrdB (Ground Bombing) Yes, bombing troops in the field. Ground Attack Mission Does not include attacks on the AF or Port.

LowN (Low Naval?, whatever does that mean?) Yes, Low Naval attack - taking place below 2000'. This is also the altitude they will use to fly to the target. Attack Bombers seem to automatically use this to skip bomb from 100 feet if you have them set at 1000'. That gives them a much better chance of a hit, but exposes them to more AAA. The AB types will usually have a lot of forward facing MGs to suppress the flak.

LowG (Low Ground?, whatever does that mean?) Yes, attacking LCUs only from low level. Usually used by fighters carrying bombs. But at 100 feet the strafe skill is the only one used.

Staf must be strafing Yes, strafing is the only attack skill used for aircraft set at 100 feet, but they may drop bombs if they have them.

Defn (Defending? against what?) This would be dodging AA fire and attacks by fighters, or perhaps keeping formation with other bombers to defend against attackers. It could include a weather element - a chance of using the current cloud cover to hide, for instance (but that might be part of general Experience).

Delay (Delay of what?) Delay in arrival at the squadron. Some new/replacement pilots are nearby and can arrive at the squadron immediately, some take many days to travel the distance to the squadron. If it says Delay is '1', you can activate the pilot immediately by right clicking on him, or change the 'To Pool' text to 'Active' and left click in the pilot name.




Zovs -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:37:09 PM)

Thank you very much platoonist and rockmedic that was very helpful and answered my questions.

Don



Zovs -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:38:31 PM)

Oh just saw your post BBfan I’ll have to start cataloging things into a document.



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 2:48:59 PM)

One of the main reasons for the confusion on this is expecting mission type (assigned in the squadron screen) to line up exactly with pilot skill types. Some skills like GrdB can apply to multiple mission types (Strategic Attack, Ground Attack, Airfield Attack, Port Attack). And even under that, I think Strategic Attack - aerial mining uses GrdB.



Zovs -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 3:37:19 PM)

Based on the feedback gained so far this is my 'codified' list of Pilot attributes.


7.1 Air Unit Information Screen

Rank: Rank of pilot.
Name: Name of pilot.
Fat: Fatigue of pilot.
Mis: Number of Missions flown by pilot.
Kills: Number of kills scored by pilot.
Exp: An Average of all skills of pilot.
Air: Air to Air Combat - Specifically Attack. Air combat and to a certain extent airmanship - knowing the aircraft well enough to deal with problems and get the most out of it offensively.
NavB: Naval Bombing - Bombing Ships, Level and Dive Bombing. Bombing ship targets from 2000' or higher
NavT: Naval Torpedo - Bombing ships using torpedoes from any altitude. The attack profile will make the bomber drop to 200' to drop the torpedo and then return it to the set altitude.
NavS: Naval Search - Not only the chance to spot the enemy ships/subs, but the higher the skill the better the details of the spotting. Also a chance of an attack being made on one of the spotted vessels. Searching at Sea, but there is a reduced chance a sub will be sighted.
Recn: Reconnaissance - higher skill brings better spotting detail and quality.
ASW: Anti Submarine Warfare - Same as NavS above but better at spotting/attacking subs. This skill includes both searching for subs and attacking them. The NavS, NavB and LowN skills are not used when attacking subs at sea if the aircraft are on ASW patrol.
Tran: Air Transport - Bombers can do this too, except for the troop carrying part.
GrdB: Ground Bombing - Bombing troops in the field. Ground Attack Mission Does not include attacks on the AF or Port. Bombing ground targets Includes AF Attack, and City attack.
LowN: Low Altitude Naval attack - taking place below 2000'. This is also the altitude they will use to fly to the target. Attack Bombers seem to automatically use this to skip bomb from 100 feet if you have them set at 1000'. That gives them a much better chance of a hit, but exposes them to more AAA. The AB types will usually have a lot of forward facing MGs to suppress the flak. Attacking ships with bombs at 100'. Primarily to provide distinction for Attack bombers. I believe the cut off between normal and low is below 2000'
LowG: Low Altitude Ground attack - attacking LCUs only from low level. Usually used by fighters carrying bombs. But at 100 feet the strafe skill is the only one used. Attacking ground targets with bombs at 100'.
Straf: Strafing - is the only attack skill used for aircraft set at 100 feet, but they may drop bombs if they have them.
Defn: Defending - This would be dodging AA fire and attacks by fighters, or perhaps keeping formation with other bombers to defend against attackers. It could include a weather element - a chance of using the current cloud cover to hide, for instance (but that might be part of general Experience). Self defense For all A/C Bomber or Fighters. Defending self against attacks.
Delay: Delay in arrival - at the squadron. Some new/replacement pilots are nearby and can arrive at the squadron immediately, some take many days to travel the distance to the squadron. If it says Delay is '1', you can activate the pilot immediately by right clicking on him, or change the 'To Pool' text to 'Active' and left click in the pilot name. is Arrival Time in theatre. Used in the Editor to set when a pilot arrives.
Retain: Retain the pilot on or off.

Thanks all for the assist!

What would be really cool is if the new updated version would have a 'living manual' (much like how WITW and WITE2 have) with info updated like this in it.



rmeckman -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/27/2021 5:56:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

NavS: Naval Search - Not only the chance to spot the enemy ships/subs, but the higher the skill the better the details of the spotting. Also a chance of an attack being made on one of the spotted vessels. Searching at Sea, but there is a reduced chance a sub will be sighted.


When my aircraft do attack ships while on a naval search mission, it often increases the pilot's NavB skill. I'm not sure whether NavB affects the probability of an attack while on naval search or just the probability of a hit.



Chris21wen -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 6:07:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rmeckman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

NavS: Naval Search - Not only the chance to spot the enemy ships/subs, but the higher the skill the better the details of the spotting. Also a chance of an attack being made on one of the spotted vessels. Searching at Sea, but there is a reduced chance a sub will be sighted.


When my aircraft do attack ships while on a naval search mission, it often increases the pilot's NavB skill. I'm not sure whether NavB affects the probability of an attack while on naval search or just the probability of a hit.


You search then you bomb, two separate functions with neither skill affecting the other.



jdsrae -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 8:08:18 AM)

Pilot experience is not an average of all skills, it is a separate experience level rating.



HansBolter -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 12:21:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Pilot experience is not an average of all skills, it is a separate experience level rating.



And difficult to raise above the mid-50s by training a single skill to 70.

Training multiple skills lines is normally necessary,



Maallon -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 1:15:31 PM)

Yes, I normally train at least two skills for every pilot, just to get the Exp and Def ratings up.
If I remember correctly Exp applies basically to everything that is not directly combat related. For example to bring a damaged plane back home safe or transfer between airfields without operational losses.
There are of course other variables at play here, as even the best pilot will have trouble landing a heavily damaged B-17 intact during a thunderstorm, but a high Exp rating will increase the chances.

edit: This thread has a lot of useful information regarding pilot training:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3540874

edit2: Fairly sure the Exp skill is not the average of all skills. If you look at the OPs screenshot, the pilot's Johnson K. highest skill is Def at 55, the other skills are mostly in the 20s and his Exp rating is 54, this doesn't add up.

The arithmetic mean of him would be: 32+27+26+20+22+25+26+41+30+29+55 = 333 / 12 = 27,75
I don't know an average type that would sum the above numbers up as 54.
Only thing that would come to mind would be a weighted average where every skill has a weight attached to it, that increases the higher the skill gets, but this is pure speculation.

At this point I am fairly sure that Exp is a separate skill that just increases with everything the pilot does and is not directly related to the other skills. Also you can have pilots with an Exp value higher than every other skill.
Though given the nature of Exp, it can be said that the higher the Exp rating is the better the skills of the pilots normally are.



Zovs -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 3:17:18 PM)

Thanks all and thanks for the link on pilots training.



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 3:35:23 PM)

quote:

Zovs:
Tran: Air Transport - Bombers can do this too, except for the troop carrying part.
GrdB: Ground Bombing - Bombing troops in the field. Ground Attack Mission Does not include attacks on the AF or Port. Bombing ground targets Includes AF Attack, and City attack.


Transport - I forgot to mention that Patrol aircraft can also carry troops, supplies and devices up to their specified load cost maximum. IIRC, the PBY Catalina can carry devices up to 'load cost 7'. This reflects the size of loading doors restricting some devices from being loaded. Supplies, being boxes, drums and such can be loaded to the maximum payload capacity of the aircraft.

GrdB - Add Port Attack to the possible missions under GrdB.



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/28/2021 3:44:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Yes, I normally train at least two skills for every pilot, just to get the Exp and Def ratings up.
If I remember correctly Exp applies basically to everything that is not directly combat related. For example to bring a damaged plane back home safe or transfer between airfields without operational losses.
There are of course other variables at play here, as even the best pilot will have trouble landing a heavily damaged B-17 intact during a thunderstorm, but a high Exp rating will increase the chances.

edit: This thread has a lot of useful information regarding pilot training:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3540874

edit2: Fairly sure the Exp skill is not the average of all skills. If you look at the OPs screenshot, the pilot's Johnson K. highest skill is Def at 55, the other skills are mostly in the 20s and his Exp rating is 54, this doesn't add up.

The arithmetic mean of him would be: 32+27+26+20+22+25+26+41+30+29+55 = 333 / 12 = 27,75
I don't know an average type that would sum the above numbers up as 54.
Only thing that would come to mind would be a weighted average where every skill has a weight attached to it, that increases the higher the skill gets, but this is pure speculation.

At this point I am fairly sure that Exp is a separate skill that just increases with everything the pilot does and is not directly related to the other skills. Also you can have pilots with an Exp value higher than every other skill.
Though given the nature of Exp, it can be said that the higher the Exp rating is the better the skills of the pilots normally are.


Like building forts and ports, the difficulty of achieving the next level of Experience goes up exponentially, so it is not possible to use the average of other skills to get the Experience skill level. Every other skill raised through training or combat creates points (unseen) toward the next point in Experience level. The number of points needed to achieve the next level increases as you go higher. Eventually you need combat experience to make significant gains in pilot Experience. The alternative is to have a professional pilot who never goes to do his job! [:-]



Sardaukar -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/29/2021 10:21:30 AM)

Note that when flying CAP fighter pilots train Air skill but not (or very little) Defensive skill. That's why you should always train Escort at least for a while to get Def up to decent value.



mind_messing -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/29/2021 1:23:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Note that when flying CAP fighter pilots train Air skill but not (or very little) Defensive skill. That's why you should always train Escort at least for a while to get Def up to decent value.


Better imo to train LowNav for both Allied and IJ. Gives you pilots for the fighter bombers or attack bombers, as well as pilots for the kamikaze pool.

Minor refinement.



Sardaukar -> RE: Pilots Skills (12/29/2021 1:59:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Note that when flying CAP fighter pilots train Air skill but not (or very little) Defensive skill. That's why you should always train Escort at least for a while to get Def up to decent value.


Better imo to train LowNav for both Allied and IJ. Gives you pilots for the fighter bombers or attack bombers, as well as pilots for the kamikaze pool.

Minor refinement.


Well, I did mean pure fighters in squadrons you are going to deploy. [8D] Allies (and to extent IJ) have squadrons in mainland(s) that are perfect for pilot training. Japan less so after 1943, since in 1944 Allies might be close enough to start Strategic Bombing and IJAAF would need all interceptors available.



HansBolter -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 12:15:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Note that when flying CAP fighter pilots train Air skill but not (or very little) Defensive skill. That's why you should always train Escort at least for a while to get Def up to decent value.


Better imo to train LowNav for both Allied and IJ. Gives you pilots for the fighter bombers or attack bombers, as well as pilots for the kamikaze pool.

Minor refinement.



Aren't fighters and fighter bombers set to attack at 1k going to automatically drop to 100 feet and use the strafing skill, rather than the low nav skill?

Unless I have misunderstood this aspect, I see no value in training fighters pilots in low nav.

I train fighter pilots in sweeps at 100 feet to raise Defense.



Alpha77 -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 12:52:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Aren't fighters and fighter bombers set to attack at 1k going to automatically drop to 100 feet and use the strafing skill, rather than the low nav skill?

Unless I have misunderstood this aspect, I see no value in training fighters pilots in low nav.

I train fighter pilots in sweeps at 100 feet to raise Defense.


I believe NO to the 1st part. fighters need to be set to 100ft so they do "strafe" attacks. In this case also the strafe skill would be used. If you set em at 1k they would bomb from 1k and the low nav skill used.And probably have also reduced bombload? 2E land bombers at least when set to 1k half the bombload.

This is different for attack bombers tho.

But your 2nd part is right, seems 100ft "sweep" does raise DEF the best. When I am in a hurry and cannot decide what to train I simply hit general which also sometimes raises DEF.

I might be wrong on this one of course [:)]



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 2:43:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Aren't fighters and fighter bombers set to attack at 1k going to automatically drop to 100 feet and use the strafing skill, rather than the low nav skill?

Unless I have misunderstood this aspect, I see no value in training fighters pilots in low nav.

I train fighter pilots in sweeps at 100 feet to raise Defense.


I believe NO to the 1st part. fighters need to be set to 100ft so they do "strafe" attacks. In this case also the strafe skill would be used. If you set em at 1k they would bomb from 1k and the low nav skill used.And probably have also reduced bombload? 2E land bombers at least when set to 1k half the bombload.

This is different for attack bombers tho.

But your 2nd part is right, seems 100ft "sweep" does raise DEF the best. When I am in a hurry and cannot decide what to train I simply hit general which also sometimes raises DEF.

I might be wrong on this one of course [:)]

You are both right because, if set at 1000 feet, fighters with bombs will both bomb and strafe - and their LowN level goes up so they are using that skill. If set at 100 feet, the fighters will both strafe and drop their bombs - but I never really noted whether the Strafe skill increases when they do this because I rarely use it.

It isn't that strafing is totally ineffective - sometimes you knock out devices on the ship or cause fires, I just think it exposes the fighter to too much small arms fire. At 1000 feet, the enemy has to at least 'lead' the aircraft a bit with their shooting to get a hit.



Alpha77 -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 3:05:26 PM)

Well if you have a plane with cannons it might be worth it to use the 100ft especially against smaller or cargo ships. An Oscar w/ 2 MGs of course would be a waste but a George, P38 or Hurricane can perhaps do some damage w/ 20mm. Or P47 a lot of HMG bullets may distract AA crews too.



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 3:21:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well if you have a plane with cannons it might be worth it to use the 100ft especially against smaller or cargo ships. An Oscar w/ 2 MGs of course would be a waste but a George, P38 or Hurricane can perhaps do some damage w/ 20mm. Or P47 a lot of HMG bullets may distract AA crews too.

Yeah, .50 caliber bullets penetrate the hull of unarmoured ships. I think there is a part of the damage algorithm that makes a chance of a point of damage after a certain number of small caliber hits.



HansBolter -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 9:13:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Aren't fighters and fighter bombers set to attack at 1k going to automatically drop to 100 feet and use the strafing skill, rather than the low nav skill?

Unless I have misunderstood this aspect, I see no value in training fighters pilots in low nav.

I train fighter pilots in sweeps at 100 feet to raise Defense.


I believe NO to the 1st part. fighters need to be set to 100ft so they do "strafe" attacks. In this case also the strafe skill would be used. If you set em at 1k they would bomb from 1k and the low nav skill used.And probably have also reduced bombload? 2E land bombers at least when set to 1k half the bombload.

This is different for attack bombers tho.

But your 2nd part is right, seems 100ft "sweep" does raise DEF the best. When I am in a hurry and cannot decide what to train I simply hit general which also sometimes raises DEF.

I might be wrong on this one of course [:)]

You are both right because, if set at 1000 feet, fighters with bombs will both bomb and strafe - and their LowN level goes up so they are using that skill. If set at 100 feet, the fighters will both strafe and drop their bombs - but I never really noted whether the Strafe skill increases when they do this because I rarely use it.

It isn't that strafing is totally ineffective - sometimes you knock out devices on the ship or cause fires, I just think it exposes the fighter to too much small arms fire. At 1000 feet, the enemy has to at least 'lead' the aircraft a bit with their shooting to get a hit.



Thanks for the clarification.

So if set at 1k they will drop bombs at 1k, THEN drop down to 100 ft to strafe with guns, but if set to 100 feet they attack with both bombs and guns at that altitude.

Hope I finally have it right now after 13 years of playing.

Never been a game with a learning curve as steep as this one.



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 10:38:58 PM)

Watching the animations of my fighters attacking (set at 1000 feet), it gets mixed between bombing and strafing, so it is possible they strafe and pull up to drop the bomb or make separate strafing and bombing runs. The only way you know bomb misses are happening is to watch for the bomb splashes. And until you get LowN trained into the high 20s, bomb hits are very rare. But once trained/experienced in LowN over 30, the rate of hits is worthwhile.

Here is an unusual one - early in the game with Buffalo fighters embarked I set them to Naval Attack to go after some transports I was trying to stop near Johnson Is. Well, instead, they went after BB Yamashiro previously damaged in a gun engagement in which she took one penetrating 14" hit and a few non-penetrating ones, followed by some 1000 pound bomb hits in the morning phase that raised her fire levels, but probably not enough to finish her. The Buffalos scored 20! - 100 pound bomb hits which likely raised system damage and fires enough to sink her - she did sink afterward.

And as you can see, the SBDs were the ones that went after the transports ...[8|]



[image]local://upfiles/35791/3C5879516BDD4FD08809D87544F6BBF8.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: Pilots Skills (1/3/2022 10:48:28 PM)

I just noticed in that previous post that the Combat Report says the Buffalos dropped their bombs from 100 feet. So I went back to check and sure enough, the Squadron was set to LowN at 1000 feet. Funny thing is, almost all those 20 hits were on the deck or devices, not the belt armour.

Another strange thing - the Naval Buffalo squadron on Lexington can carry bombs but the Marine Buffalos on Saratoga cannot!

EDIT to add: The LowN skill of the squadron is (post battle) 29. Each Buffalo carries 2 bombs, so they scored 20 hits out of 52. Yamashiro was in an Escort TF, moving slowly with little flak.

[image]local://upfiles/35791/1EE61B7341EA4F7EBBC7B62A63436D2F.jpg[/image]



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