General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (Full Version)

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Zovs -> General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 1:41:48 PM)

So I have read through the manual! Yeah!

I am playing the campaign as Allies, with latest patch and scenario.

I am in the planning of Dec 9, 1941. I Have lost two BB (), from the Perl Harbor attack and I see a lot of Jap ships near Perl. I have 4x TF: Air Combat (I have the Enterprise with 12 other ships but I am paranoid in loosing my CV, lol and afraid to move it out to sea), ASW Combat (sent out to search), Local Minesweeping (but I don't want to loose any of these ships with unknown Japs about and Sub Patrol out searching.

Question #1 is for Aircraft and the Patrol percentages. I am not 100% clear on how this impacts the game yet. I don't know if it is good or bad to say for example take 18th PG/PS (P-40B Warhawks) that have 8 serviceable planes and put the mission on Escort (I have some other bombers doing Naval Attack to try to bomb those ships I see and I have some Naval Search and Recon missions flying) and I set or how to set the Patrol levels.

i.e.,

CAP
LRcap
Train
Rest

Since this unit has 8 aircraft and its primary mission is Escort, should I set some percentage to CAP and to Train (and or to Rest)? What effects are in place if I set the CAP to 50 and Train to 50 (my assumption is that 4 will fly CAP and 4 will train as Escorts. Or does all 8 fly as Escorts an 4 as CAP and 4 as Train, some how?)

So my question is what are some good guidance in setting Patrol Levels? Is it wise to do CAP 20 and Train 10? What is the other 70% doing? If you set two to 50% for 100% will they get fatigued a lot?

This will help answer my question on the 8 serviceable A-20 Havoc's I have stationed at Perl, their primary mission is Naval Attack and secondary mission is Airfield attack (not sure what is best to pick here) and for the Patrol levels I set Search and Train to 10 each.

Here is a pic of Pearl and those Japanese that are freaking me out on 9 Dec. 1941.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/TCiWrRIh.png[/img]



the1henson -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 2:15:26 PM)

There’s a lot of art/personal preference to some of the air settings, especially for fighters. It also varies given the need at that base at that time.

My personal take, which others may or may not agree with: be conservative, especially as a new player. Right now, you don’t have any assets with a realistic hope of taking on the KB (concentrated Japanese carrier force). Assuming this is December 8, put all of your healthy fighters on CAP at various altitudes for 100% for the day in case there’s a second day of strikes on Pearl Harbor. You can also put up naval search and ASW because most of that red you’re seeing is submarines and mini-subs. Get your carriers far away from where you think Japan’s carriers may be. More experienced players are sometimes more bold the first day, but I’ve seen them pay a nasty price for it at times. Bold moves with the US Navy should be the result of very good intelligence for at least the first couple years. “Good intelligence” comes from good analysis, and in game terms that’s often a result of long experience with this engine and parsing the daily intel and spotting reports for important (but vague) tidbits like a carrier aircraft being spotted on a part of the map.

In general, I try not to push my non-training squadrons beyond 70% utilization for longer than a couple days. You’ll start to see morale decreases and ops losses if you do. It’s fine to push to 100% for special circumstances, though, and for some reason you can train at 100% forever with no observable ill effects in my experience.

You’re an experienced war gamer so I’m sure this has occurred to you, but the AARs here are where I’ve learned nearly everything I know about the game. They are of varying quality, of course, but there are some true epics in that part of the forum and the way players help each other in them is a phenomenal resource of game knowledge. I’m currently trying to catch up with “Deja vu all over again” and “Gensui jdsrae vs Cracksabbath.” Both are from the Japanese POV because I’m trying to learn Japan, but both are useful peeks into different ways of approaching planning, spotting, intel, logistics, and execution. Amazing resources.



Zovs -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 2:27:40 PM)

@the1henson,

Thank you much, very wise words indeed and thanks for the tidbits. I'll have to look more closely at the AARs.

Don



Yaab -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 2:38:52 PM)

Pearl Harbor (PH) air groups:



Fighters

60% CAP, 30% Rest, 10k feet, range 0

This is a fire-and-forget setting. Fighters will gain EXP and AIR skill from flying continous CAP mission. 30% Rest is to stop pilot fatigue from building into 20s.With 30% Rest it should be in 8/9-19 fatigue range. Range 0 because you want to protect ships in PH. Altitude 10k for Japs overflying our medium AA range. You can spread the CAP at 5k, 7k, 10k etc.


Patrols

Nav Search, 60% Nav Search, 30% Rest, 10 range, 7000 feet

Same as above. Range 10 to reduce fatigue and any ops losses. 7000 feet to almost overlfy Jap 25mm AA ceiling (8000 feet should be OK)

Bolo bombers

Nav Search, 60% ASW, 30% Rest, 8range, 5000 feet

Range 8 since ASW flies half the set range, thus searching in 4 hex range. 5000 feet to better spot subs. Subs carry AA weapons but not many tubes, so you should be safe at 5000 feet

B-17
Train them at 100%, range 0, 10k feet in skill of your chosing

Remember that 5000 feet altitude seems to be a last, neutral altitude for fatigue build-up. Go lower and fatigue will accumulate faster.

Move all other aircaft(transport, dive bombers, Havoc,recons etc) to Lahaina to reduce clutter in PH.



rogueusmc -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 2:50:15 PM)

You said it is Dec 9th...what kind of damage is PH repairing on runway and airfield service? If you have much damage, ground the land based planes until you get damage down.



Zovs -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 2:50:31 PM)

Yaab,

Thank you very much!!! That was just the advice I was looking for! Thanks for the details on the type of planes, patrol levels and altitude. Very much appreciated!

Don



Zovs -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 2:52:04 PM)

rogueusmc,

Both airfield service and runway damage is at 0.



rockmedic109 -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 3:21:03 PM)

For fighters I usually run 30% CAP. The base will use the other 70% if a large group is spotted heading to the base. Sometimes the attackers are spotted too late and the reserve 70% does not get airborne....Radar helps here. If the base is near someplace that you are sending air strikes to, the other 70% can be sent on escort missions. This can cause a lot of fatigue. Setting a Rest % will keep that percentage on rest and reduce fatigue. I think overstaffing your squadron also helps to keep fatigue down, but this early you do not have enough pilots to do this.

As mentioned above, play conservative. This is a long war. You're not going to win the war in one week, or even one year.....but you can make it a lot harder for yourself in that same time period. Think long term.

I usually use 50% Training and 50% Search settings. I can probably go higher but I haven't for my current game.

I try to keep fatigue down below 10 and certainly below 20. Pilots like their beauty sleep.

Remember Allied General Order Number One.....Accept any battle where you can expect a 1:1 loss ratio. Attrition is your friend. You will replace your losses while Japan will hit a point where they cannot. Pilots are a part of this attrition.

One final note, Protect your xAP, AP and APA. In 1944 I fret over these more than CVs. I know I have enough CVs for all my operations. You will be constantly moving forces forward, picking them up and moving them forward again. Moving Land Units around slows me down more than IJN right now.



Zovs -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 3:31:14 PM)

rockmedic109,

Thanks for these tips/tricks!

Adding to my own tips document.

Any suggestions on Dive Bombers (patrol levels, altitude and range)?

I read in the manual about the altitude band ranges, but don't quite understand how that aspect works yet.



Maallon -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 3:44:02 PM)

It is better not to mix CAP and escort duties in fighter squadrons, use them for one or the other.
There are two reasons for that:
- Your CAP altitude is likely a different one than your bomber altitude and coordination between bombers and fighter escorts happens through altitude settings.
See this guide for air strike coordination: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2382494
- CAP at range basically flies CAP at every single base or hex with units in it in the range you have set, these causes dilution of force and a lot of fatigue.
CAP at range 0 is more efficient and can be flown without accumulating a lot of fatigue. CAP at range > 0 should only be used in edge cases, for example if you want to cover a amphibious landing with your Carriers. (It is normally not a good idea to put Carriers into enemy base hexes, too many hazards like mines. And Carrier only fly 50% Cap if they are in a base hex.)

I usually even run CAP at 70% and never have problems with morale or fatigue, fatigue normally is below 10 or at ~10.



ishtarin -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 4:58:29 PM)

American dive bombers can take a 500lb bomb to their max range I believe, which will be more than capable of devastating cruisers and carriers. Altitude for naval bombing should be between 10k to 15k feet as this is the band in which they will dive. For ground and port attacks I prefer 9k feet so they don't dive directly into land based AA and die. American scout bomber groups are often used on naval search, you want to have a couple dedicated groups on NavS with 70% search 30% rest and no angles set (group should be big enough for angles to not be necessary). Dive bomber groups should be set to naval bombing with secondary mission as rest unless you're sitting outside of a port or airfield, set everything to 0 so the whole group flies.



Zovs -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 5:09:21 PM)

rockmedic109,

Thanks for these tips/tricks!

Adding to my own tips document.

Any suggestions on Dive Bombers (patrol levels, altitude and range)?

I read in the manual about the altitude band ranges, but don't quite understand how that aspect works yet.



rockmedic109 -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 6:43:10 PM)

I have my divebombers set for either 10K or 15K. If I want my planes to concentrate on a few ships, I set them for 15K as they will attack in 9 plane group {good for attacking BBs or CVs}. If set for 10K, they attack in 4 plane groups and this can spread the bombs over a few more ships {good for large transport convoys where one or two hits will doom a ship}. I never have them at less than 10K as I think that is the cut off to force glide bombing which is far more inaccurate than dive bombing and they still take AA fire at 2000' release point.



rockmedic109 -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 6:48:51 PM)

Range bands are for fighters. Some are more maneuverable at certain altitudes.

Divebomber patrol percentage is based one what you have to cover and how many you have. If you are under PBY coverage, you might not need any. If not, you want to patrol 100% of the area of expected enemy advance. You can usually do this with one or a percentage of one squadron. Give Naval attack orders and set patrol percentage to what you need.



BBfanboy -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 9:11:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

I have my divebombers set for either 10K or 15K. If I want my planes to concentrate on a few ships, I set them for 15K as they will attack in 9 plane group {good for attacking BBs or CVs}. If set for 10K, they attack in 4 plane groups and this can spread the bombs over a few more ships {good for large transport convoys where one or two hits will doom a ship}. I never have them at less than 10K as I think that is the cut off to force glide bombing which is far more inaccurate than dive bombing and they still take AA fire at 2000' release point.

To be sure - glide bombing was removed in an air combat update about five years after the game's initial release. If not dive bombing the DBs would be level bombing. There is another band from 20K-25K feet that triggers dive bombing.

What is really interesting is that the higher altitude allows for more aircraft in the bombing sub-group. I did not realize that.



BBfanboy -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 9:14:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Range bands are for fighters. Some are more maneuverable at certain altitudes.

Divebomber patrol percentage is based one what you have to cover and how many you have. If you are under PBY coverage, you might not need any. If not, you want to patrol 100% of the area of expected enemy advance. You can usually do this with one or a percentage of one squadron. Give Naval attack orders and set patrol percentage to what you need.

I think the correct terminology is Maneuver Bands. Range bands could refer to distance (normal, extended, transfer) so I think it important to not use that here to avoid confusing new players.



Ian R -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/30/2021 11:00:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

I usually use 50% Training and 50% Search settings.

I try to keep fatigue down below 10 and certainly below 20. Pilots like their beauty sleep.




Whilst pilot fatigue is one concern, the setting suggested above will result in airframe fatigue, and that leads to op losses.

I always have bombers with at least 20 or 30 % rest setting, and 10 or 20 % pilot training. At PH you may as well go 40% search, 30% train, 30% rest early on. Later in the war I run the heavy bombers at 40 or 50% rest, and avoid extended range activities. Extended range is for emergencies.

The exception to that is bombers set only to a small search percentage, and otherwise only to naval bombing (with possibly a small training percentage. Most of them won't fly , most of the time, so you are in effect at rest.

I also never put carrier dive bombers on an alternative mission of airbase attack, just 10 or 20% search. Everything on the carrier gets told to fly at the same altitude, between 11k and 15kft. The TBs will drop down to 200 feet to deploy their torpedoes, such is their lot.



rockmedic109 -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/31/2021 6:45:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Range bands are for fighters. Some are more maneuverable at certain altitudes.

Divebomber patrol percentage is based one what you have to cover and how many you have. If you are under PBY coverage, you might not need any. If not, you want to patrol 100% of the area of expected enemy advance. You can usually do this with one or a percentage of one squadron. Give Naval attack orders and set patrol percentage to what you need.

I think the correct terminology is Maneuver Bands. Range bands could refer to distance (normal, extended, transfer) so I think it important to not use that here to avoid confusing new players.


Range band was wrong. I was at work, yeah that was it! I was distracted by, er....something work like! <beating myself in the head for the fifteenth time today for doing something stupid>.



rockmedic109 -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (12/31/2021 6:56:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

I have my divebombers set for either 10K or 15K. If I want my planes to concentrate on a few ships, I set them for 15K as they will attack in 9 plane group {good for attacking BBs or CVs}. If set for 10K, they attack in 4 plane groups and this can spread the bombs over a few more ships {good for large transport convoys where one or two hits will doom a ship}. I never have them at less than 10K as I think that is the cut off to force glide bombing which is far more inaccurate than dive bombing and they still take AA fire at 2000' release point.

To be sure - glide bombing was removed in an air combat update about five years after the game's initial release. If not dive bombing the DBs would be level bombing. There is another band from 20K-25K feet that triggers dive bombing.

What is really interesting is that the higher altitude allows for more aircraft in the bombing sub-group. I did not realize that.

I did not know that glide bombing had been pulled.

I do not know exactly what the cut off is for bombing in larger groups.



LowesyPC -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 11:31:51 AM)

Want to hijack this thread if possible to ask my own noob question.

In WitW (which is a GG wargame I am familiar with) you can see the growth of aircraft factories. In WitP the allies only start with 4 air factories, do more get built as we go? Because I am worried about things such as fighters and flying boat replenishment. Now I understand this isn't Hearts of Iron but I want to know that stuff will be replenished eventually so I can feel a bit better committing planes. Also there are no Armaments or Vehicle factories either.



Sardaukar -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 1:06:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LowesyPC

Want to hijack this thread if possible to ask my own noob question.

In WitW (which is a GG wargame I am familiar with) you can see the growth of aircraft factories. In WitP the allies only start with 4 air factories, do more get built as we go? Because I am worried about things such as fighters and flying boat replenishment. Now I understand this isn't Hearts of Iron but I want to know that stuff will be replenished eventually so I can feel a bit better committing planes. Also there are no Armaments or Vehicle factories either.


Allied production is fixed to historical values. Japan can expand.

You should note, that you also have fixed Replacement rate of planes arriving monthly. That is separate from factories, that are addition to that. Plus most squadrons arrive with full compliment of aircrafts.

Numbers are historical or as close as devs could get.



Platoonist -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 1:23:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LowesyPC

Want to hijack this thread if possible to ask my own noob question.

In WitP the allies only start with 4 air factories, do more get built as we go?


There are a lot more than four that considering that locations like Los Angeles, San Diego and Melbourne all have multiple aircraft factories. There are also AC factories in Sydney, Seattle, Vancouver and Komsomolsk in the Soviet Union although some don't come on line for some time.

However, the off map production does eventually provide the Allies with the bulk of their replacement planes though.



Platoonist -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 2:08:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LowesyPC
Also there are no Armaments or Vehicle factories either.


You can see the build numbers for those items in the Industry/Troops/Resource pool in the Intelligence tab. Just click "i".



LowesyPC -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 4:35:17 PM)

So in response to the points above. I had this answered at the same time on stream and combined with your answers it make sense. And correct me if I am wrong:

Replacement Rate = The construction of Planes in factories that are off map (so in Heartland of the USA for example)
Production Rate = The construction of Planes in factories that are on the map (so places like LA)



LowesyPC -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 4:37:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

quote:

ORIGINAL: LowesyPC

Want to hijack this thread if possible to ask my own noob question.

In WitP the allies only start with 4 air factories, do more get built as we go?


There are a lot more than four that considering that locations like Los Angeles, San Diego and Melbourne all have multiple aircraft factories. There are also AC factories in Sydney, Seattle, Vancouver and Komsomolsk in the Soviet Union although some don't come on line for some time.

However, the off map production does eventually provide the Allies with the bulk of their replacement planes though.




For those that get added do you know what time Roughly?



Platoonist -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 4:40:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LowesyPC

Replacement Rate = The construction of Planes in factories that are off map (so in Heartland of the USA for example)
Production Rate = The construction of Planes in factories that are on the map (so places like LA)


Exactly. [8D]


[image]local://upfiles/9147/F69384BE16D64FF4AC6CF62C7F27F388.jpg[/image]



Platoonist -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 4:45:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LowesyPC

For those that get added do you know what time Roughly?


The month and year when the AC factory starts cranking out planes is right next to the aircraft name in the factory display. For example the PB2Y-3 Coronado begins production at San Diego beginning in January 1943 at three planes a month. The PB4Y-1 Liberator in December 1942, etc. The planes that aren't being produced yet are greyed out.

[image]local://upfiles/9147/0B91D0D38F7E41C98C86E308F24C4126.jpg[/image]



Platoonist -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 5:01:40 PM)

And for off map production you check the aircraft replacement pool in the intelligence tab. For example, you start getting the SB2C-4 Helldiver in December 1944 at 250 planes a month spread through the month.

[image]local://upfiles/9147/693F2F298E58437FA8089265A6AA15CC.jpg[/image]



LowesyPC -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 5:09:15 PM)

Thank you. I didn't see too many other factories when I went into the Production tab. And thank you for the other picture, as I say I am used to WitW so I was looking for the production rate and had no idea what the replacement meant, now I do, and I feel a lot better about what I can commit to the war etc.



Platoonist -> RE: General Advice for Rookies (my questions) (1/2/2022 5:30:14 PM)

Yeah, it can be a bit confusing since you have some aircraft models like the B-17G that produced both on the map (Seattle) and off map (called replacements) as well.



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