Probe (Full Version)

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FelixCulpa -> Probe (1/5/2022 12:52:04 AM)

Why use Probe? As it has a 150% Hit disadvantage. Don't know what the probability is that you will increase Recon points.

What effect does Probe have on the enemy unit Vigor factor?








vege1 -> RE: Probe (1/5/2022 10:39:18 AM)

I use probe all the time. The main reason is obtaining recon on the enemy. Probe essentially allows you to trade men/action points to recon. I only use probe when I am unsure should I attack the hex (but I lack intel on the enemy true stenght) or perform an artillery strike. I like to probe tiles that lack cover, so I can use the recon that I just gained to shell the enemy into oblivion. A simple probe with a single infantry batallion is typically enough to increase recon from 20 to 50 (at night), or from 50 to close to 70 in daytime. This increase in recon makes your artillery much more effective than shooting randomly to unknown enemy postions. Also, probe can be very useful when enemy has really large force in a hex, and you have arty available, but you just need that recon. If you perform a head on attack you could take catastrofic damage, probe allows you to auto retreat after 10% losses.

The +150% hitpoint increase is a bit cryptic modifier, as I thought that the enemy will be more easy to hit (not your own unit, but I am not entirelly sure about this). However, you get a big debuff to your attack which makes it more difficult to do any damage while probing. If I have a mechanized unit and enemy is not stronger than my own, I might perform recon in force to maximize recon and do some damage.



vege1 -> RE: Probe (1/5/2022 10:42:33 AM)

Also probing at night will prevent enemy's readiness to build up normally. About vigor, I am not sure.



JacquesDeLalaing -> RE: Probe (1/5/2022 1:25:09 PM)

Probe is an attack that lasts only two rounds (your units will fight for two combat rounds and retreat for two combat rounds), thus it consumes fewer APs (so you can move or fire afterwards...). As usual, you gain 10 recce points per combat round.
Probe gives YOUR unit a big bonus on hitpoints. So it means you're much less likely to suffer casuatlies. (in the recent Beta, the bonis is +150% hitpoints).
Probe also gives your unit a big malus on attack power, so you're not likely to cause many casualties either.

You want to use recon either to increase your recon points in the target hex (to spot enemy positions for your artillery) or to swipe away light enemy resistance without spending all your AP on them.



vege1 -> RE: Probe (1/5/2022 2:04:27 PM)

Good to know that your own unit's hitpoints measure the difficulty for the enemy to score hits to your unit. I have been constantly misinterpreting that factor as an offensive modifier (in my head hitpoints are something you inflict, I would rather call them shieldpoints).



FelixCulpa -> RE: Probe (1/5/2022 9:33:29 PM)


quote:

Probe gives YOUR unit a big bonus on hitpoints. So it means you're much less likely to suffer casuatlies. (in the recent Beta, the bonis is +150% hitpoints).


OK! Like @vege1 I was reading the hitpoints as "prober's" damage percentage! Now it makes sense.

The question arose when I was thinking about ways to prevent defenders gaining the 50% bonus to Vigor during the night turn. Vigor is then used to calculate Readiness.

Thx



GiveWarAchance -> RE: Probe (1/5/2022 11:18:28 PM)

I tend to do recon in force with a large force to lower my casualties and get in a slap or two on the enemy while having a look see. If I only use one battalion, they tend to lose a bit more so I prefer larger recon in forces. It is a very interesting feature added by the genius Vic.



Rosseau -> RE: Probe (1/6/2022 3:17:43 AM)

Great thread, and another "layer of the onion" peeled off on this complex game. Vic's Shadow Empire I could just not handle, but the WW2 setting here makes it much more approachable.

I tend to rush too much playing the AI, but against a human I would need to use every strategy available (including the one here) to have a prayer of not getting slaughtered. I am not a multiplayer person, but really owe it to myself and the game to give a small scenario a try one day.



beyondwudge -> RE: Probe (1/6/2022 3:37:16 AM)

I believe that the tradition is a unit or game object can takes "hits" and those are tracked in "points" so the term is "hit points". Further, the number of hit points a unit can take before death is given as its Hit Points property. Here, it is being used as a proper noun (as a name) for the property "Hit-points" with the majuscule first letter (capital letter/big letter) as opposed to the hits the unit has taken so far with the "hit-points" beginning with the miniscule first letter (small letter). As American English tends to drop commonly used punctuation, you get "Hitpoints" and "hitpoints" without the hyphen creating effectively new words of art or definitional terms and from there you see Vic's usage, which may be more a Hit score used in some calculation with a number of different outcomes rather than points that track hits taken up to a threshold. I would speak more specifically here, but I haven't yet found information on the mechanics of individual unit attacks (detailed combat report doesn't seem to give the rolls or other calculations, just the outcomes; please correct me if I am wrong).

In anycase, I think Vic is using most of the terms in this game quite abstractly. Without a deep understanding of the actual divisions between classes of event and object and the assumptions behind the model used, you would have real trouble coming up with the right word for what is happening. There are just far too many different types of things being rolled up into a single term. You could justify using half a dozen different words or combinations of words without really finding one that is clearly more persuasive than the rest.



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