Shooters per salvo (Full Version)

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LucasLB -> Shooters per salvo (1/8/2022 6:10:49 PM)

Hello,

Is it me or the "shooter per salvo" setting in WRA is bugged / inconsistent. I've read the manual and the devblog, watched P Gatcomb tutorial on WRA, experimented in the scenario editor etc..., nothing makes sense to me. It feels like the logic of "shooters per salvo" differs depending on the weapon type (AAM, AGM, dumb bombs etc...). Does someone really understand how it works? It would be great to also understand the value that this feature adds in specific game situations.

The "fire from enough units to fill the salvo weapon qty requirement" setting is the only one that i understand. But everytime I try to set a numerical value to "shooters per salvo", it behaves inconsistently. ​

For example, have a group of a/c fly above a target with their wra set to "all weapons” and “shooters per salvo" to X (=numerical value). If they are equipped with mk 82 snakeye, X doesn't matter, if your a/c are close enough, they will ALL drop everything as if “shooter per salvo” doesn't matter. Now do the same with a group of a/c equipped with Mavericks: if wra is set to "all weapons", only X a/c will fire all their mavericks.

That's the kind of inconsistency that leaves me confused and unable to fully understand the “shooters per salvo” feature. Talking to my fellow gamers, I believe a lot of us are confused with how this feature works and there is little information on the internet.

Thanks for your support.



thewood1 -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/8/2022 7:38:19 PM)

Does it ever work, never work, or only work sometimes? What are the other WRA settings? Is it specific weapons, units etc. What would be the best way to test it?



BDukes -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/8/2022 8:36:20 PM)

Hi Lucas

I gave it a quick test and looks ok.

I set the mission ROE with the snake-eyes to be all weapons for 1 shooter. So what happens is each aircraft (the one shooter) drops its entire load (all weapons) on one target. With iron bombs, you will get a bomb pattern effect and you can see it on the map when you zoom in.

Save file is attached. Give it a try and if you do find something, definitely report what settings you had with a save file. Makes it much easier to troubleshoot.

Mike



boogabooga -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/8/2022 11:17:35 PM)

I was under the impression that "shooters per salvo" would make more sense if it were labeled "max shooters per salvo." I.E. it is not a way to evenly divide a salvo amongst shooters but a condition to stop shooting early if too many units would be needed to fill the requested salvo. I might be wrong. Does that help?




nukkxx5058 -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 8:30:38 AM)

I agree it's quite unclear ... never been able to fully understand it neither.



LucasLB -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 10:07:57 AM)

Hello and thank you for all the answers.

Please find attached a zip file with 2 recordings and their associated scenarios as well as my DirectX diagnosis. I'm using the 4738 build.

Both recordings demonstrate a simple strike mission with snakeye vs mavericks. Everytime, WRA is set to "all weapons" and "1 shooter per salvo".

In the snakeye scenario, ALL a/c dump all their bombs in 1 salvo whereas in the maverick scenario, ONLY 1 a/c dumps all its mavericks per salvo. Is this difference of logics intentional?

Also, discussing with fellow players and watching some tutorials on this online, I hear different interpretations of "shooters per salvo". Some say that if you have WRA set to W weapons per salvo with S shooters per salvo, it means that for each salvo, S units will fire W weapons EACH, for a total of W x S weapons (e.g. if 1 weapon per salvo and 2 units per salvo, 2 units will each fire 1 weapon simultaneously for a total of 2 weapons fired at the target per salvo). I've never managed to replicate this. Some others say that it is / should be a a way to evenly divide a salvo amongst shooters. Aside from the weird behaviors like the one above, it rather feels like a limiting factor (= "max shooters per salvo" that describes boogabooga).

Could a dev please clarify what it is actually designed to do?

If it is "max shooters per salvo", what's the point in setting it to anything else than "fire from enough units to fill the weapon qty requirement"?

Thanks for all the clarifications.

Cheers,

Lucas



LucasLB -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 10:14:03 AM)

Zip file attached.



boogabooga -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 5:05:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LucasLB

Zip file attached.


Regarding the snakeyes, I fixed your mistake. See attached- I think this is the behavior that you expected.

Do you see what I did?



LucasLB -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 9:20:03 PM)

Hello Boogabooga,

Actually, your scenario yields the same result on my computer. Out of your group of 4 a/c, 2 pairs attack 2 different targets. For each of these 2 attacks, 2 a/c dump all their bombs in one salvo despite wra stating "all weapons" and "1 unit per salvo".

Does it happen differently on your computer?

Cheers,



boogabooga -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 10:10:08 PM)

Hunh? That does not sound like my scenario at all. What I attached is a clone of your scenario, a group of 6 Harriers all attacking a single embassy building in the middle of central Libya. There should not even be a second target to attack.

Use:
SPS_Snakeye_boogaboogaFixedIt.scen (24.99 kb)

Anyway, your mistake is that you are allowing the snakeyes to be used in self-defense. You need to set that to 'do not use weapon in self-defense'. The self-defense setting is an over-ride to the salvo doctrine once you get within a certain distance. You get within that distance with the snakeyes, but not the AGM-65s (because those are "stand-off" weapons), which is why you see the difference in behavior. Once I fixed the self-defence doctrine, only the first A/C attacks the building with all 12 bombs, the rest do not.



LucasLB -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/9/2022 10:51:22 PM)

Hello Boogabooga,

Excuse me, I got confused and was actually answering to Bdukes's earlier response and attached scenario.

I tested yours, you're absolutely right, I would have never thought about the self defense feature interfering. Sorry for suggesting it might have been a bug.

So your vision of a "max shooter per salvo" feels right.

I would add that setting the "number of shooters per salvo" to a numerical value and setting "weapon per salvo qty" to "all weapons" allows to drop in one salvo a multiple of a unit total weapon load which is convenient because numerical values of "weapons per salvo" are lower.

Is there any other usefullness for setting "shooters per salvo"? Thx.

Cheers,



boogabooga -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/10/2022 12:07:35 AM)

Please read:
https://command.matrixgames.com/?p=3598



LucasLB -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/11/2022 9:19:40 PM)

Thank you, I had actually read this interesting post before.

What I still can't wrap my head around is the usefullness of that feature. Basically, under what circumstances would you want to change the "shooter per salvo" feature to anything else than its default value "fire from enough units to fill the weapon per salvo qty requirement"? Some real examples would help a lot.

Thx



boogabooga -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/11/2022 11:25:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LucasLB

I would add that setting the "number of shooters per salvo" to a numerical value and setting "weapon per salvo qty" to "all weapons" allows to drop in one salvo a multiple of a unit total weapon load which is convenient because numerical values of "weapons per salvo" are lower.



I think that is as good of a use as any.

Might be useful for example, if you have different types/loadouts of units in a mission and you only want one (or whatever) unit to engage at a time, regardless of how many actual weapons they have. Some people like to send home each unit that goes winchester right away instead of maintaining group cohesion.

Perhaps there is a specific use in naval tactics as well.

Anyway, this feature is wayyy down the micromanagement rabbit hole to the extent that I think very few users really look at it.






LucasLB -> RE: Shooters per salvo (1/12/2022 1:02:43 PM)

Thank you for all of your inputs Boogabooga.

Before we close the topic, could a developer share his thoughts on how to use SPS with real situation examples illustrating the added value of the feature ? Thanks.

Cheers,

Lucas



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