Convoy escort advancement (Full Version)

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ncc1701e -> Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 2:11:20 PM)

Can you please change the default advancement for this naval group?

[image]local://upfiles/46661/3496EE78C9084C6CA23D4E589F7CC840.jpg[/image]



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 2:13:24 PM)

Since this is not possible to change the advancement of ships, I would like the 2nd CL/DD sqd to be Warships 1939 by default instead of Convoy Escort 1939.

It would help to improve the Italian navy even if it seems nobody do it except me. [:D]



roy64 -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 2:16:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Since this is not possible to change the advancement of ships, I would like the 2nd CL/DD sqd to be Warships 1939 by default instead of Convoy Escort 1939.


I didn't know that [X(]



redrum68 -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 2:19:14 PM)

I noticed this as well. Not sure if there is a historical reason or if it was just a data error.



Nirosi -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 2:22:18 PM)

quote:

even if it seems nobody do it except me


I do it too![:D]



redrum68 -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 2:58:22 PM)

I upgrade subs. Sometimes destroyers and CVs. But its really expensive and in most cases not worth the cost to upgrade. Naval upgrade costs should be something like 2-5% of the unit cost not 10%. Though I also think naval units should just be cheaper overall as no one buys any naval units besides subs because the costs are insane.



scout1 -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 3:33:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

I upgrade subs. Sometimes destroyers and CVs. But its really expensive and in most cases not worth the cost to upgrade. Naval upgrade costs should be something like 2-5% of the unit cost not 10%. Though I also think naval units should just be cheaper overall as no one buys any naval units besides subs because the costs are insane.


Certainly have not paid enough attention to this ... No wonder ive been limited for land unit purchases .....[8|]



stjeand -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 5:27:54 PM)

I have never seen anyone upgrade the Italian navy...though if anyone would try it ncc would.

Since all 39 tech as the same...this would do little.

And if you are playing the Italians...AND upgrading your ships...not sure you should be playing the Italians. They need more land not a better navy that is just going to get sunk by carriers.



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 5:52:21 PM)

The small fleet stacking, limited to 3 groups, has a little limited the overwhelming power of the Allies at sea. Now, there is something to do with the Italian navy in the Europe 1939 Small Fleet scenario.
I really would like this limit to be the default now for all scenarios: Europe 1939, Europe 1940, Europe 1941, Europe 1942, Europe 1943 and Europe 1944.

I am upgrading them to 1941 level only. With this level, they can be useful to occupy the Royal Navy instead of remaining at port.



Nirosi -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 5:56:38 PM)

quote:

I really would like this limit to be the default now for all scenarios: Europe 1939, Europe 1940, Europe 1941, Europe 1942, Europe 1943 and Europe 1944.

I am upgrading them to 1941 level only. With this level, they can be useful to occupy the Royal Navy instead of remaining at port.


+1



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 5:57:43 PM)

And I forgot the Europe 1939 Italian Option scenario of course. Never playing this one. [:D]



generalfdog -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 8:24:08 PM)

agreed kinda silly to have convoy escort when they no longer have convoys to escort. Being effective with Italy is a fun thing to play with usually they are better off with land units but their navy can be effective, one game I sunk 2 British battleships and along with taking Malta and Suez drove them from the med, I've even tried buying an Italian CV kinda pricey! and it was sunk right away so boo



stjeand -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 9:01:33 PM)

Disagree...Keep in mind that Convoy Escort is just a name.

a 1941 Convoy Escort vs 1941 Warships

Escort 2 Defense, 1 AntiSub
Warship 1 Surface, 1 Defense, 1 AntiSub


So basically just a defense instead of an attack.


Not a bad thing in surface combat.



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 9:23:00 PM)

Italy has three types of ships:
. Convoy Escort (just for this DD group)
. Warships
. Large Warships

As such, it will never reach Convoy Escort 1941. I don't have enough labs to spend on three advancements, two at most and not this one. Thus, my request for a change.



Nirosi -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 9:27:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Italy has three types of ships:
. Convoy Escort (just for this DD group)
. Warships
. Large Warships

As such, it will never reach Convoy Escort 1941. I don't have enough labs to spend on three advancements, two at most and not this one. Thus, my request for a change.


The convoy escort advancement would also have helped the 5 Italian escorts. But since they are now useless most games, I would also like the change.



AlvaroSousa -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/16/2022 10:25:40 PM)

Mistake I will change it.



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/17/2022 4:20:59 PM)

Thanks a lot



sveint -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/17/2022 6:52:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

I have never seen anyone upgrade the Italian navy...though if anyone would try it ncc would.

Since all 39 tech as the same...this would do little.

And if you are playing the Italians...AND upgrading your ships...not sure you should be playing the Italians. They need more land not a better navy that is just going to get sunk by carriers.


Disagree.



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 5:27:39 PM)

Yeah, really like the Small Fleet scenario without the big Death Stars fighting each other.

Here, the Warspite BB group sacrificed himself to protect the Glorious CV group.
UK will need to commit few more ships in the Med. [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/46661/FDB5C1A2C4F040AB9F5D17387E698696.jpg[/image]



stjeand -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 6:35:37 PM)

I am playing 2 small fleet scenario now and they will be my last.

All Axis players really like this scenario. It only makes them more powerful...
AND I play the Axis more than Allies.



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 7:21:22 PM)

Is it because the Allies player in WPE don't play WPP? Thanks to WPP, I have learned to put two / three small naval stacks together and supporting each other.

With the small fleet scenario, this is the end of the big Allies Death Star that Naval Air Strike can't even damage.
An interesting new dimension to naval combat.

In the above screenshot, this UK naval stack was near Libya without air support and near an UK sub. Both were in Raider mode given the fact they did not try to do a naval interception.
Royal Navy will now have to remain in Eastern Med in 1940.



stjeand -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 7:34:52 PM)

I took out 3 CVs and a BB in a giant fleet...yes it cost me air but cost the UK more.

NOW air can attack without recourse. You might lose 1 or 2 planes but they will smash your ships especially CVs since they are targeted first now and are not able to have adequate escorts.

With this scenario it breaks land based air for me.
You basically said hey ships are too safe now lets make air completely overpower them.

Success.

In 1940 the UK can't even sail in the Med...the Germans will have 8 bombers with 3 Italian just waiting to pounce.


But if you like it play it...

As I said this will be the scenario ever Axis player should want...and every Allied player should not.



sveint -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 7:39:13 PM)

I like small fleet too. And Axis air dominance in the Med only lasts until early 41.

Historically the UK lost a lot more ships than most Allied players do. Small Fleets is great, in my opinion.



redrum68 -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 8:00:18 PM)

I like the small fleets for the most part (though a max of 4-6 might be better than 3 to allow for more escort ships) but tend to agree with @stjeand that it makes land based air really strong against fleets then. Personally I think land based air naval strike just needs to be toned down a bit now that you can't have a giant doom stack of ships to defend against it. I think Axis air dominance in the Med as long as they commit to it will last at least until the USA joins and possibly even longer depending how many air units UK/USA build.



stjeand -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 8:04:02 PM)

Also do not forget that you tripled the strength of the Uboats vs surface ships...
They can now just be in fleet mode and just hit ships as they come to defend the convoy lanes.

Try it out. Suspect it will go very poorly for the UK...may not even be able to cover their lanes anymore.



redrum68 -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 8:23:12 PM)

Yeah I noticed subs in fleet mode interdicting smaller surface ships fleets seems pretty strong. Even moving a stack of say 3 patrol groups to fight 3 subs, the results often seem not so great even though that should be a direct counter to the subs in fleet mode...



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 10:16:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

In 1940 the UK can't even sail in the Med...the Germans will have 8 bombers with 3 Italian just waiting to pounce.


Yes it is 1940. I recommend you this book:
World War II at Sea: A Global History by Craig L. Symonds

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36198001-world-war-ii-at-sea



ncc1701e -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 10:20:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Also do not forget that you tripled the strength of the Uboats vs surface ships...
They can now just be in fleet mode and just hit ships as they come to defend the convoy lanes.

Try it out. Suspect it will go very poorly for the UK...may not even be able to cover their lanes anymore.



Since you are not upgrading your ships, they are all at 1939 level. Have a look at the advancement table for Warships or for Large Warships. I am upgrading my ships also for Anti-Sub value.

So yes, I invest in my navy as Allies. So yes, I don't have a big land army to do D-Day in Normandy in 1941.
That's what is cool with Warplan. You can lose the way you want to.



Nirosi -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/19/2022 10:35:36 PM)

quote:

You can lose the way you want to.


I concur! [:D]



boldairade -> RE: Convoy escort advancement (1/20/2022 8:17:35 PM)

[ You can lose the way you want to.
[/quote]

I always think i might be winning...right up until i lose!



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