Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (Full Version)

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skeletonboi -> Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/20/2022 10:04:09 PM)

I’m new to this forum and to CMO, so please forgive me if this is in the wrong place. I actually posted this exact same thread in ‘the War Room’ but realised gameplay questions should probably come here. If a mod could be so kind, could my duplicate thread in the War Room be deleted please?


Some mild spoilers for the Shifting Sands Operation Moked mission here (the Israeli 1967 air strike on Egypt), so be warned.




———

I’m wondering if more experienced players could help me out here.

I know what I need to do with this scenario, which is to fly under the SA2 umbrella and swing through the airbases, taking out runways first then having follow up waves come in and take out the aircraft trapped on the ground.

My problem is coordinating the entire 200-plane Israeli strike. I have two questions:

1. I want to have a first flight fly low and identify planes in the open, then subsequent flights target only locations with planes with bombs and strafing. However, F1-attacking assigns flights to each revetment, empty or not. Is there a better way than assigning individual targets for 200 planes?

2. I’m only using missions to create a ‘staging area’ and then manually assigning strikes. It’s tedious with so many planes: is it possible for me to make better use of Missions or weapon permissions more?



tylerblakebrandon -> RE: Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/21/2022 12:08:50 PM)

Using Shift F1 will allow you to manually allocate which targets you wish to strike.



skeletonboi -> RE: Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/22/2022 11:49:32 AM)

I could, but it’s tedious to manage so many different planes. There’s over 300 Egyptian planes on the ground in that scenario. I’ve had some success with small missions and WRA, but I still have the problem of planes repeatedly attacking empty revetments even when the planes in them are destroyed. I’ve been manually retasking planes but its inevitable I miss some.

The best thing would be watching some kind of Let’s Play to see how an experienced player handles a large scenario (with over a hundred units, striking multiple targets simultaneously).

EDIT: I found what I was looking for! Someone on the forums dealt with this exact situation in 2017 and used ‘Off-axis attacks’.

I can’t post the link because my account is new, but googling ‘Hit Hard Hit Fast Command Modern Operations Forum’ should throw up the thread.



BDukes -> RE: Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/22/2022 4:18:55 PM)

This feels like a trap but here goes[:)]

You are using the mission editor correct?

Mike



skeletonboi -> RE: Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/23/2022 12:04:08 AM)

It's a fair question! I assume you're talking about the strike planner, rather than the scenario editor, yes? Yup, I've been making use of it. After reading the thread I mentioned above, I'm going to have another go at it.

Here are the attempts I've made:

1. Set staging points at an off-angle to mimic the Israeli 'left hook', then manually commanding flights to begin strikes (minimal use of planner )

2. Set large strikes against multiple airbases at once (first try)

3. Began setting up airbase-specific strikes to prevent pathing issues with large flights. 1 mission for runways+Condib runway bombs, 1 mission for the ground-attack package.
- Toyed with flipping A/G strafing on and off
- WRA set to 1 shot + 1 unit to prevent overkill
- EMCON left as it is, because radar detection isn't a huge issue
- 1/3rd rule off, enforce flight size off
- Flight plans manually dragged on the map to make sure ingress avoids AAA

I will try again with one more addition:
- Off-axis attacks permitted so flights don't waste their ordnance on one 'group' of targets before moving to the next


Up till now, my main problems have been
1. Tedium in managing all those flight plans
2. Inability to focus on just spotted planes on the ground, besides manually adding / removing targets as they are identified
3. Linked to 2: planes waste ordnance on empty revetments / revetments where planes are destroyed
4. Time-on-target coordination issues



PN79 -> RE: Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/23/2022 8:00:35 AM)

When attacking revetments / open parking / tarmac I generally accept that assigned aircrafts are attacking also empty ones. It seems to me realistic as shooting to false targets are normal thing in reality.

I set these targets as a group to be attacked in strike planner and containing only these revetments /open parking / tarmac. After adding aircrafts in strike planner I am setting WRA for the mission. If aircrafts have bombs I set only 1 bomb per target, if they unguided rockets then more usually up to 4. This way attacking flights will attack more of these targets and thus hopefully destroy more enemy aircrafts on the ground.

For other targets on the enemy air base I am setting missions also according to type of target. So own mission for each runway or taxi-way which could be used as runway. Separate mission for hangars which could be destroyed completely etc.

Another thing is that before planning the attack I need to decide if I want to shut down the enemy airbase or destroy aircrafts on the ground. That depends if there are HASes as they are very hard to destroy. If I want to shut it down I only target runways and taxiways (and possibly air defences and radars in case of strong enemy defences). If I want to destroy aircrafts on the ground than basically I have only two main strike missions: tarmac/parking and hangars plus usual secondary missions (SEAD, fighter cover, recon etc.) With hangars I again set just one mission for all hangars and then set WRA for usually 2 bombs against one target. Another thing could be limited strike to reduce enemy ability to use airbase - for example targeting only munition stores.



BDukes -> RE: Help with Large Operations / Operation Moked (1/23/2022 2:51:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: skeletonboi

It's a fair question! I assume you're talking about the strike planner, rather than the scenario editor, yes? Yup, I've been making use of it. After reading the thread I mentioned above, I'm going to have another go at it.

Here are the attempts I've made:

1. Set staging points at an off-angle to mimic the Israeli 'left hook', then manually commanding flights to begin strikes (minimal use of planner )

2. Set large strikes against multiple airbases at once (first try)

3. Began setting up airbase-specific strikes to prevent pathing issues with large flights. 1 mission for runways+Condib runway bombs, 1 mission for the ground-attack package.
- Toyed with flipping A/G strafing on and off
- WRA set to 1 shot + 1 unit to prevent overkill
- EMCON left as it is, because radar detection isn't a huge issue
- 1/3rd rule off, enforce flight size off
- Flight plans manually dragged on the map to make sure ingress avoids AAA

I will try again with one more addition:
- Off-axis attacks permitted so flights don't waste their ordnance on one 'group' of targets before moving to the next


Up till now, my main problems have been
1. Tedium in managing all those flight plans
2. Inability to focus on just spotted planes on the ground, besides manually adding / removing targets as they are identified
3. Linked to 2: planes waste ordnance on empty revetments / revetments where planes are destroyed
4. Time-on-target coordination issues


I think your approach is great and pretty close to what I do.

Another method I use (depending on complexity) and one you'll notice on streams (Kushan's) is people set up support missions as a hold point. Once aircraft arrive and on station (support mission) I will create missions or even just attack commands from there.

It is a riskier approach but it saves the time and energy to retask if recon dictates a change, there is complex refueling, or I want a simpler time-on-target/strike problem to solve by breaking up a complex strike up into smaller problems. I've learned that over-complication sucks up tons of time and mental energy. Put the work in where and when it matters. The AI isn't judgey about it[8D]

My issue is I constantly tinker with flights during strikes. I'm pretty sure most of it is useless[:)]

Hope this helps!

Mike




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