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tolsdorff -> RE: Training Flight Parameters (Hex, alt?) (1/21/2022 9:45:49 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BananaConvention
I am experimenting with pilot training. I seem to recall somewhere someone saying use 10000ft and 1 hex to reduce operational losses during training. Is this correct? Do the pilot receive the same training proficiency upgrades using a setting like this or is the hex/alt setting proportional to training upgrade rate?
quote:
ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey
There was information having 1-2 pilots with good skill improves gains, but I don't know if it holds true with all the changes over the years.
The number of pilots and Exp of the pilots that are required varies. The key is that the high skill pilots raise the average experience of the unit. In my screenshot above, the numbers in the parenthesis above the skill heading are group averages. In that example, all the pilots below 38 Exp will get a bonus when training. The 6 x 62 exp pilots cause the group average (38) to be greater than the rest of the pilots in the squadron (35/36). All of the 35/36 Exp pilots will get a bonus when training.
Reports that suggest adding highly skilled pilots does not help in training are likely due to the fact that most players pull their pilots in from the replacement pool and take whatever they get.
Consider a squadron with 20 pilots drawn from replacements with the following Exp:
(27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 35, 35, 36, 36, 38, 39).
Group Exp = 27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39=664
664 / 20 = 33 (fractions round down in virtually every calculation in WitP:AE)
Therefore, in that group the pilots with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32 will get a training bonus.
If I add a 70 skill pilot,
Group Exp = 27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39 + 70 = 734
734 / 21 = 34
Therefore, with the extra experienced pilot, the trainees with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33 will get a training bonus.
If I add 2 x 70 skill pilots,
27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39 + 70 + 70 = 804
804 / 22 = 36
Therefore, with two experienced pilots, the trainees with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 35, 35 will get a training bonus.
The problem is that anyone looking for those effects will be looking at a very small change in experience gain and conclude the bonus does not exist. In the example above, one experienced pilots gets precisely 1 pilot a bonus, while in the 2 pilot example, 7 pilots will get the bonus.
This is why I stratify my pilots. Consider the same example with all 35 skill pilots:
20 x 35 = 700
700/20 = 35 group Exp
20 x 35 + 70 = 770 = 36
All pilots get bonus from one experienced (exp = 70) pilot.
The bigger the squadron, the less experienced the "good" pilots, the wider the gap between the most and least experienced trainees, the more "good" pilots you need to maximize the bonus.
quote:
Over the Years I've collected a lot of info on a lot of different topics.
I've Modified some of it for my own use and added to it over the years with cut and paste.
I don't remember what I've modified. For a lot of this info I don't have the name of
the original poster. I can't find the post in the Forum anymore.
Sometimes it feels like I'm Walking through a Ghost Town. I see shadows of the players gone.
That is the case for the below info. I've used this info and have had good results with it.
If anyone knows who the original posters were please let me know and I'll give them full credit.
Pilot Training:
Set the group to train in the role the aircraft was designed for.
100% training
Set the range to zero
Commander should have good stats in leadership and moral for training.
Put them in a large well stocked base
Give them a full complement of men and aircraft.
Leave them for a month or two but keep an eye on them,
Set altitude at 5k', to keep fatigue low.
Set altitude at 100' when training Fighters for Sweep Mission, this increases their Def & Strafe skills.
Optimal value for any particular skill is 70. Skills in the 60's acceptable but not great.
- when a Fighter group reaches Air skill in the high 60's, switch from 100% Training to 50%CAP/50%Train,
keep alt at 5k' & range=0. Fighters on CAP will gain Exp, at no cost to supply.
- as far as possible, click-fest your air-groups to keep each group's pilot-Exp within 5 points of each other
If a group has half its pilots w/ 70-Exp, & half w/ 40-Exp, only the lower-Exp pilots gain from Training.
The more skilled a pilot is the harder to make gains.
- while keeping Training consonant with a group's type is usually best, you can sometimes train in an
out-of-bounds mode. For instance, if a Fighter group has planes that can carry bombs, they'll happily train
for Ground/Airfield/Port Attack. The prob is, after they're trained & you transfer them to
Reserve - they'll still be 'Fighter' pilots - so don't exclude them when you're trying to fill a
Bomber air
group w/ trained pilots from Reserve.
- Some skills are airframe-type specific - for instance you can only train pilots for NavT if they're
flying planes that can carry torps. So, you must keep some torp-capable airgroups back from the front lines,
to train new pilots in NavT.
- finally, training takes time! 2 months to get a group of new pilots into basic shape
(usable in combat only in emergencies), 2 more months to fine-tune them.
- & then there's the cross-training - a Carrier-trained group of dive-bombers needs good NavB skill,
but will benefit from training in NavSearch. Carrier Torpos must have optimal NavT skill,
but should train for NavB, to retain effectiveness when their CV has exhausted its torp load.
The optimal value for any particular skill is '70'. Pilots w/ Exp & Skill > 70 are truly combat-capable,
60's guys are usable, but 50's guys are minimal, they won't do well.
Sweep at 100 is the fastest way to train up defensive skill, and this is what you want.
Strafe skill increase is a 'side effect' of training up defensive. Low level training, especially 1000 feet
or lower, can build fatigue quickly, so watch it. You can sort by fatigue in the reports very quickly.
Just establish a cut-off for yourself and when you hit it rest the pilots.
LowG is the skill of choice for using fighters in a ground attack role. They do pack a punch when pilots
are trained up and interdict quite nicely when the ground units are not located at base hexes and/or supported by dedicated AA.
Also I note that the impact of continuous (strafing) attacks on disruption/fatigue/morale of a ground unit is often
either neglected or underestimated, although admittedly, since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated
or second rate units,this usually only is of minor use.
Thoughts on the use of Allied bombers.
B17s: Once again you can't waste these valuable bombers. They are best used for naval search in early 42 when you are critically
short of patrol aircraft. Bolos are training aircraft only. Use them to train all skills. You will Early 1942: Medium bombers
train on low naval. You won't have enough to waste them attacking land need some skills in ASW in 42, as well as search and to
train up pilots in bombing skills for when you start to get liberators in some numbers later on. Whirraways, these are training
aircraft only and can be used as spot ASW near ports.
B17's are good Recon aircraft if flown at low level (2000 or 1000 Feet) They are tough and can soak up a lot punishment.
Use for Ground Recon when enemy units are out of base hexes with low AA.
Late 1942. You will want low naval and high ground bombing for your mediums and ground bombing for your heavies.
ASW becomes less important for the Allies as you are getting lots of naval patrol aircraft and by the
end of 42 you start to get plenty of sub killing escorts.
1943: You still don't get mediums in numbers and I reserve most for naval attack with ground bombing as a back up.
The strafers look cool but never use them for low level attacks vs large units or bases. Bomb at 6k and above or you will
never have any left. Heavies are pretty much slated for Base and port bombing. The only skill they will need is high alt. GB.
1944 and on: Now you get plenty of mediums and can use them for all jobs. Don't waste time honing their skills up too high.
A medium pilot with 50 GB and 50 low naval is very deadly and will accumulate more skill and exp in combat. Train up some pilots
in strafing to complement the low naval skill. Once again, you need not train up too high. Don't ever worry about getting
them high enough to skip bomb. It is not worth the effort. I never train pilots in low ground bombing skills.
They are almost as effective at 6000 feet and above and you will lose less to AA this way. Your heavies train in GB only.
You should never need them for anything else. (Unless you have no HRs about low level naval attacks).
Remember, you can use catalinas to train naval torpedo pilots and kingfishers set to sweep to train naval fighter pilots.
(both are always in short supply in 42)
If you get short of bomber pilots then any fighter squadron can train up in any bombing skill.
Make sure you train up your spare navy and marine fighter pilots to have some low naval bombing skills.
Corsairs and hellcats get "two" 1,000 pound bombs by 1944. This is a better load than either the helldiver or avenger.
For openers… March 1942 is a bit early to bring fully-trained fighter pilots into front line combat ops.
A perfectly good pilot in a lousy Allied fighter plane vs an opposing Japanese plane that flies rings around
your Allied fighters is usually wasted pilot training.
quote:
wneumann.... (Neumann Walter)
It’s a bit much to re-post in here – I have written up an organization for Allied pilot training in my thread (Sleepless in Samoa),
check the bottom half of page 26, also a later post related to pilot training on page 32. The organization I devised is broken down
by nationality and by air mission types (fighters, ground & naval bombing, naval search, recon, etc).
A few quick principles though not an all-inclusive list.
1) JFB’s have their industry. For an Allied player, pilot training is their industry.
2) Any air squadron not in active front-line combat operations should be training pilots.
There shouldn’t be any air units that are doing absolutely nothing.
Air units in restricted commands are prime candidates for pilot training,
also any squadron not currently needed in the front lines.
3) Train early, train often. Pilot training should be the major Allied air mission
in the early campaign (through at least early 1943). It’s boring as hell but you’ll have much more fun later.
I probably had close to 90% or more of all Allied air units in pilot training at some points during 1942-early 1943.
The early campaign is the time when you can use the largest possible number of air units for pilot training
– the number of available air units you can use for pilot training later in the campaign will decrease as you
will need more and more air units for front-line combat operations. The early campaign is the
Allied player’s best opportunity for large-scale pilot training.
4) Specialize your pilot training squadrons for specific skills and keep them training in that skill.
A fighter training squadron set for Air skill training (Escort mission) should be kept training in that
skill – in this example, pilots that become fully trained in the Air skill should be transferred out of the air unit
and replaced with new pilots untrained in the Air skill. Once a training squadron is set to train pilots in a particular skill,
avoid changing the type of skill set for the squadron unless there’s an absolute need to do so (which should not be often)
– changes of this kind will often disrupt your pilot training organization.
5) 70 is the magic number… 70 skill level. Pilots in a training squadron reaching a 70+ level in whatever skill the squadron
is training for should be quickly rotated out of the training squadron to the Reserve pool (either to train in another skill
with a different training squadron or made available for front-line service) with vacant slots in the squadron filled with new pilots.
6) Check your training squadrons regularly and rotate pilots in/out with as little delay as possible.
Fully-trained pilots in a training squadron wastes valuable training capacity. Some training squadrons
I check weekly, many I check daily, depends on how much training activity is occurring within the squadron.
7) Multiple levels of pilot training. One trip through a training squadron does not make your pilots combat-ready.
Pilots trained in multiple skills usually have higher experience levels.
8) Specialize the pilots you’re training for specific types of missions.
A pilot that’s a jack-of-different-skills is often a master of none when they reach the front lines.
Pilots should be trained in multiple skills and these skills should be related to each other.
9) Use older plane types for pilot training. PDU on is a must. By 1943, you should be using
early model P-40’s for USAAF fighter pilot training, not P-38 or P-47 variants.
If you have a training squadron using a newer plane type, downgrade its plane type to something older.
10) Plan like crazy…. You need to look ahead. What kind of trained pilots do you need later?
For what mission(s)? How many pilots for a particular type of mission will you need? Look at the types of planes you have,
how many of them you get, what the planes are capable of. Also look at your strategy, your circumstances and objectives.
These all tell you what kind of pilots you will need, how many and when you will need them.
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