Rebuilding broken down Corps? (Full Version)

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Angeldust2 -> Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/21/2022 7:54:03 AM)

During End Of Turn, there is a Breakdown Step. In this step Corps/Armies can be broken down into two divisions, when certain criteria are met. Is such a Corps available for immediate rebuilding/buying in the following Build/Production Step?
The following picture seem to indicate so. But notice the faint green background around the VII SS Corps, which just has been broken down. Is this kind of a marking?
In several attempts, I build two INF, but did not get the VII SS Corps by random draw. Does somebody know, it can or cannot be rebuild?



[image]local://upfiles/71407/2432529476F94AFA893ECCB9983095AA.jpg[/image]



Orm -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/21/2022 7:58:50 AM)

It can be re-built at once. It is completely random if it is being built, or not.

The faint green background is just a remnant from when it was lit up as being available for breakdown. Just a cosmetic bug.



Angeldust2 -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/21/2022 8:49:53 AM)

Excellent, thx.

While we are on it, I noticed, only the SS INF was offered for breakdown, other Wehrmacht INF, either 6-3 or 6-4 were not. At that point in time, there were in the force pool: SS INFDiv, SS MOTDiv, MOTDiv
So because the first unit to be chosen is a SS INFDiv, only the SS Corps could be broken down, even with a Wehrmacht MOTDiv as second unit? If a Wehrmacht INFDiv would have been available, all regular Wehrmacht INF would also be offered to be broken down, even with the SS MOTDiv as second unit?



Centuur -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/21/2022 11:10:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeldust2

Excellent, thx.

While we are on it, I noticed, only the SS INF was offered for breakdown, other Wehrmacht INF, either 6-3 or 6-4 were not. At that point in time, there were in the force pool: SS INFDiv, SS MOTDiv, MOTDiv
So because the first unit to be chosen is a SS INFDiv, only the SS Corps could be broken down, even with a Wehrmacht MOTDiv as second unit? If a Wehrmacht INFDiv would have been available, all regular Wehrmacht INF would also be offered to be broken down, even with the SS MOTDiv as second unit?



Almost correct. However, a Wehrmacht corps cannot be broken down using SS divisions.

RAW:

Breaking down
You build divisions in the usual way (see 13.6.5). Alternatively, you
can break down an on-map face-up corps or army that isn’t in an
enemy ZOC into divisions at the start of the production step. Each
corps or army breaks down into 1 division of the same type and 1
INF or MOT division (your choice). SS corps break down into 1
equivalent SS division and 1 SS or normal INF or MOT division.
When you break down a corps or army, you can select any divisions
from your force pools but their total combat factors can’t exceed
half (rounding up) those of the corps or army you break down.
If there aren’t enough divisions in your force pools to break down a
corps or army, you can remove them from anywhere on the maps to
make up the shortfall.

Reforming
Divisions can reform into a corps or army. If 2 face-up divisions are
stacked together outside of enemy ZOCs at the end of the
production step, and 1 of them is a MOT division, you can reform a
corps or army of the same type as the other division. If there are no
corps or armies of that type available, you can reform them as an
INF corps or army instead.
Choose the corps or army randomly from the force pools. Keep
picking until you find one that has combat factors less than twice
those of the 2 divisions.
Put the divisions back into the force pools and replace them on the
map with the reformed corps or army.
Example: The Germans have a 2 factor MOT division and a 4
factor SS ARM division stacked together at the start of the
production step. You can replace them with any SS ARM or INF
Corps that has 11 or less combat factors.

Minor country corps/armies may not breakdown or reform. Major
power units may not breakdown into, or reform from, minor
country units.



Courtenay -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/21/2022 4:15:12 PM)

quote:

Reforming
Divisions can reform into a corps or army. If 2 face-up divisions are
stacked together outside of enemy ZOCs at the end of the
production step, and 1 of them is a MOT division, you can reform a
corps or army of the same type as the other division. If there are no
corps or armies of that type available, you can reform them as an
INF corps or army instead.
[...]
Example: The Germans have a 2 factor MOT division and a 4
factor SS ARM division stacked together at the start of the
production step. You can replace them with any SS ARM or INF
Corps that has 11 or less combat factors.

The example contradicts the rule! The example says you can replace the divisions with "any SS ARM or INF Corps ..." while the rule says "If there are no corps or armies of that type available, you can reform them as an INF corps or army instead." Thus, according to the rule, you could only replace the divisions in the example with an SS INF if no SS ARM units are available.

Now the odds are that no one is going to use an SS INF instead of an SS ARM, but I can easily imagine situations where one wants an INF rather than some other type. (A 7-4 INF instead of a 4-4 MOT, for example.) So may one use an INF if there are corps or armies of the other type in the force pool?



Centuur -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/21/2022 9:51:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

quote:

Reforming
Divisions can reform into a corps or army. If 2 face-up divisions are
stacked together outside of enemy ZOCs at the end of the
production step, and 1 of them is a MOT division, you can reform a
corps or army of the same type as the other division. If there are no
corps or armies of that type available, you can reform them as an
INF corps or army instead.
[...]
Example: The Germans have a 2 factor MOT division and a 4
factor SS ARM division stacked together at the start of the
production step. You can replace them with any SS ARM or INF
Corps that has 11 or less combat factors.

The example contradicts the rule! The example says you can replace the divisions with "any SS ARM or INF Corps ..." while the rule says "If there are no corps or armies of that type available, you can reform them as an INF corps or army instead." Thus, according to the rule, you could only replace the divisions in the example with an SS INF if no SS ARM units are available.

Now the odds are that no one is going to use an SS INF instead of an SS ARM, but I can easily imagine situations where one wants an INF rather than some other type. (A 7-4 INF instead of a 4-4 MOT, for example.) So may one use an INF if there are corps or armies of the other type in the force pool?


Interesting. I've never noticed this before. But IMHO the rules takes precendence over examples.



paulderynck -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/22/2022 6:00:48 PM)

You may not be able to immediately reform because you can reform only if one of the divisions is motorized. FREX you can breakdown an Infantry corps into 2 INF Divs or one Inf Div and one MOT Div. Only in the second case could you immediately (or ever) reform.

I don't see any contradiction in the example. One of the divisions involved is an SS unit and the rule grants an exception of an Infantry corps or army instead of the unit type of the "other" division. FREX you can't reform a Motorized corps from one INF and one MOT Div, you'd have to have two MOT Divs. Nonetheless the "other" Div must be SS in order to get either an SS corps of that "other" Div's type or an SS Infantry corps.



Courtenay -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/23/2022 1:54:36 PM)

The rule grants the ability to reform into an INF corps or army "If there are no corps or armies of that type available." Thus, if there ARE corps of that type available, you can not reform into an INF corps or army. The example lets you form into an INF corps or army whether or not there is a corps of that type (SS ARM in the example) available.

If there is an SS ARM corps that can be reformed into, the rule says you can't reform into an SS INF; the example says you can. Contradiction.



paulderynck -> RE: Rebuilding broken down Corps? (1/25/2022 5:58:34 PM)

I now see the contradiction.

Never ran into it in a game and no idea what MWiF does or doesn't do.



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