Tourism Detail question/suggestion (Full Version)

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zgrssd -> Tourism Detail question/suggestion (1/22/2022 8:23:45 PM)

I originally asked this in a Dev Diary, but I think this might be better asked seperately.

I had some questions regarding Tourism, Migration, Refugees regarding to Private Economy. Which is also kinda a suggestion how things should work?

The big questions
Is Tourism money generated from "nowhere"? Or is it taken out of the Private Economy of the side whose Tourists are visiting you?
Do migrating people bring a share of the private economy money with them. As few migrants would come to you without means (that would propably fall under refugee).
Is there any accounting of this loss to your Private Economy money in Diplomacy, Empire overview or Treasury/Income screens? Might be important information if you want to discourage/encourage travel between you and another empire

I had some ideas on how to implement such a system, which I would submit as a suggestion:

As systems can have multiple assets, a bit of data collection is nessesary:
* each system is given a "tourism attractiveness score", propably the sum attractiveness of all assets; but maybe a heavy preference to the "hub"
* one asset in the system should also be used as a "hub". This is where interstellar tourists come and go to

Transport of tourists would be split into Interstellar and System Transport:
* The hub is the only place interstellar tourist transports frequent. They are the luxury liners and airplanes transporting people between systems. They are not there for ferrying people around within the system
* Transporting tourists around within the system (if there are several place to visit), would be a seperate ships job. A tourist Shuttle? Maybe each tourist asset should keep at least one in reserve, just to be on teh save side

Actuall process:
* A unit of Tourists is generated on a planet
* The unit takes a bit of money out of the Private Economy. This could be both them literally withdrawing money to have it availible during travel, or them just earmarking those funds in their accounts for the use during tourism (thus taking it out of circulation for a while).
* Maybe there should be several "price bands" for tourists. There is the cheap mass tourists, the high end tourists and maybe at least one step in between. Each one takes a different amount of money out of the private economy
* tourists should always pay for a two way ticket ahead of time, transfering the full funds in the targets private economy, tourism sector. It is the safest way to make sure they do not get stuck because they run out of money mid-travel. Let's asume they are actually okay at managing their money for the return trip [;)]
* they go from asset to asset in a system - never visiting a asset twice - then ending up at the hub (wheter they started there or not).
* if they still got a unvisited system and the money to pay for transit, they should then pick a new system to go to. they repeat travellign around in that system as well, ending up back at the hub
* eventually they run out of money and/or reachable places. At which point they use their (already booked) return tickets. They should take the most direct route (not actually inverting their route)
* if they are stuck too long in a asset or hub, they should also start the return trip right away - regadless of budget. If there is no transports to go around, they only want to go back home.
* any leftover budget is returned to the private economy
* if they die mid transit, any leftover budget should go back to the private economy they came from. And naturally the (relative?) tourism rating of their target system should take a serious hit.
* the return trip should be as direct as possible. There is no need to trace back the exact route through a system.

Is anybody able to answer my questions?
And opinion on how well that system would work?



Galaxy227 -> RE: Tourism Detail question/suggestion (1/22/2022 10:47:17 PM)

For your questions about DW2, I'm going to wager there likely aren't any new additions regarding the relationship between the private sector and tourism. At this point I'd argue we've heard most of the new features being brought to DW2.

As for your suggestions, I'm sorry to break it to you, but none of what you've suggested is something I believe should come before a great deal of other improvements to DW2. May I remind you our sequel sees the loss of playable pirates, and we still lack the ability to establish treaties between three or more parties (multilateral diplomacy). Personally, I think adding more layers of complexity to tourism, of all things, feels redundant. I'm not purchasing DW2 to play Planet Zoo in space. The most compelling part of your post was refugees, but you were only asking about their role in DW2, rather than suggesting new mechanics for them.

I love fantasizing about DW2 as much as the next guy, but in the weeks before release we need to be realistic with ourselves. Let's put your space-tourism dreams to rest. Or at the least, title your next post as "my space reverie."



elliotg -> RE: Tourism Detail question/suggestion (1/23/2022 12:49:35 AM)

In DW2 you now have Migration treaties, without which there is no foreign migration between empires. A migration treaty must be agreed upon by both empires.

In addition you now have detailed per-race population policy settings at each colony, so you have very fine-grained control over migration. Of course the potential migrants still need to want to travel to the new colony, the same way they did in DW1.

With tourism, we have specific scenery bonuses at locations. Often these are from ruins or natural features of a planet. Scenery bonuses have specific levels - some are more scenic than others.

You can acquire scenic locations either through colonization or building a resort base at the location. Passenger ships will then transport tourists to the destination, assuming they want to travel there (from a wealthy colony, location not too distant, etc).



zgrssd -> RE: Tourism Detail question/suggestion (1/24/2022 6:36:26 PM)

quote:

For your questions about DW2, I'm going to wager there likely aren't any new additions regarding the relationship between the private sector and tourism.

This is a small detail (in overall figures). So I would never asume we know how this works.

quote:

As for your suggestions, I'm sorry to break it to you, but none of what you've suggested is something I believe should come before a great deal of other improvements to DW2.

I never said anything about this having priority or needing priority. Like every suggestion, it is just a idea.

quote:

May I remind you our sequel sees the loss of playable pirates

Well, with the option to Raid others without declaring war (in part thanks to how Jammers work), we kinda do still have playable pirates. But we have to see exactly how far the mechanics here go.

quote:

we still lack the ability to establish treaties between three or more parties (multilateral diplomacy)

I can not think of a game where there is Multilateral Diplomacy.

Stuff like Stellaris Federations and the Galactic Community get close to a idea like that.
And I guess Confederations (a deterent against agressive Expansion) does exist in Victoria.
But I doubt those are what you meant?

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

In DW2 you now have Migration treaties, without which there is no foreign migration between empires. A migration treaty must be agreed upon by both empires.

In addition you now have detailed per-race population policy settings at each colony, so you have very fine-grained control over migration. Of course the potential migrants still need to want to travel to the new colony, the same way they did in DW1.


I am actually not a fan of needing Migration treaties for all Migration.
People have been moving between states that did not even recognized each other existence, nevermind having a migration treaty.
As long as the other side at least takes you as "2nd class citizen" (you do not end up in salve camps), you can breath the atmosphere and your nation does not actively makes leaving illegal (only a tool for autocracies), noticeable migration would always happen.

I understand it as a gameplay shortcut, but hope they are going to be a bit more detailed here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

With tourism, we have specific scenery bonuses at locations. Often these are from ruins or natural features of a planet. Scenery bonuses have specific levels - some are more scenic than others.

You can acquire scenic locations either through colonization or building a resort base at the location. Passenger ships will then transport tourists to the destination, assuming they want to travel there (from a wealthy colony, location not too distant, etc).


Good to know that.

So there are already places and whole systems that might be good tourist destinations.
And passengers actually move around the place as discrete units.

All it needs from that is some tracking of:
* systems/places within the current system we already visited
* remaining budget
The scale might still make tracking even that much infeasible. But at least he basis is there.



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