new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (Full Version)

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Antmf_slith -> new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:10:47 PM)

I am bran spanking new to this genre. I am an older gamer (55) and really want to get into WW2 stuff. So I picked up WiTE , DC Barbarossa, and SC world at war but when I try to play them I am easily overwhelmed by all the units I need to move. Aside from WiTE because I am not ready to tackle that yet is there a game hex based that you all would recommend that isn't so big and not so micro intensive? I don't mind deep and complex but man the micro kills me lol. So may units to move one at a time lol. Thanks all...




Platoonist -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:16:13 PM)

The Operational Art of War (TOAW) has a lot of smaller scenarios. Moreover, those scenarios cover about every conflict in the past 200 years. It's not to difficult to learn either.




OldSarge -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:29:25 PM)

I think Valor and Victory would be an approachable game for someone getting started with wargaming. It is a newer title with a new DLC coming out soon, so you might be able to wait a bit and pick it up on a bundle package - assuming Matrix sets one up.

Gary Grigsby's World at War or Panzer Corps might also be good starting titles, depending upon your interests.

HTH




Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:29:51 PM)

Was thinking of that game or the new DC Ardennes being that i read the scope is smaller than Barbarossa but will check out TOAW thank you...




Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:35:16 PM)

What about some of the John Tiller games? I read they are pretty deep which I prefer and read that they aren't as hard to learn like WiTE?




OldSarge -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:47:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Antmf_slith

Was thinking of that game or the new DC Ardennes being that i read the scope is smaller than Barbarossa but will check out TOAW thank you...


DC:Ardennes Offensive is a solid wargame and very challenging even for grogs. There are plenty of smaller scenarios smaller unit counts and map coverage that might help you with the game concepts and mechanics, it also has an active forum so there are folks who can help you out.

HTH




AndySfromVA -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:56:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antmf_slith

I am bran spanking new to this genre. I am an older gamer (55) and really want to get into WW2 stuff. So I picked up WiTE , DC Barbarossa, and SC world at war but when I try to play them I am easily overwhelmed by all the units I need to move. Aside from WiTE because I am not ready to tackle that yet is there a game hex based that you all would recommend that isn't so big and not so micro intensive? I don't mind deep and complex but man the micro kills me lol. So may units to move one at a time lol. Thanks all...


Panzer Corps Gold is a game I constantly come back to when I want a challenging but easy to play WW2 game. The scenarios are not lengthy which is another plus for me.




Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 3:57:37 PM)

Sounds great i will pick it up. I didnt like Barbarossa I am not into the who decision making Role playing thing. I want just a war game lol. Plus Barbarossa has a tone of units to move and man it was tough on me lol... Hate micro lol...




mainsworthy -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 4:45:33 PM)

Antmf_slith "Heroes of Normandie" is a nice game to start you off, and lots of fun




jack54 -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 4:53:36 PM)

Warplan might be something to look into...

Warplan is grand strategic but not overly complicated; there is production and supply to consider. IMHO start with the Europe version first, if you like it there is also Warplan Pacific.

Good Luck!




Torplexed -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 5:54:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antmf_slith

I am bran spanking new to this genre. I am an older gamer (55) and really want to get into WW2 stuff. So I picked up WiTE , DC Barbarossa, and SC world at war but when I try to play them I am easily overwhelmed by all the units I need to move.


You already own it, but I consider SC2: World at War as a relatively easy game to pick up and learn. The mechanics are rather straightforward. No stacking and not a huge number of units to move around each turn. (especially compared to War in the East which is a monster game)




Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 6:24:54 PM)

BTW how do you guys keep track of units moved and which units need to be moved? I get so confused lol. Also when it comes to strategizing how do you guys decide which towns or units to attack first how to punch a hole through the infantry to get the tanks through so you can get a encirclement going? Sorry for all the noob questions. Thank you all...




RangerJoe -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 6:32:34 PM)

Use your Scouts to find a weak spot, pound that area with artillery and air support then CHARGE!

[image]local://upfiles/52896/A678841CD740435E9B45AB94348F957E.jpg[/image]




Kuokkanen -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 7:33:06 PM)

Field of Strategy
http://tpgames.free.fr/FoS/

Relatively simple: few different unit types, player only moves them around, attacks are automated. Artillery units have range, other units need to get into adjacent squares for attack. Game is free too.

[edit]
Battle Academy series is very straightforward tactical scale game. Matrix has several other games with similar game play mechanics from ancient Rome to medieval Japan.




ncc1701e -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 9:49:10 PM)

I would recommend you Warplan, very good WW2 strategy game. The first one in Europe (WPE) and the second one in Pacific (WPP).




rickier65 -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/23/2022 11:10:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OldSarge

I think Valor and Victory would be an approachable game for someone getting started with wargaming. It is a newer title with a new DLC coming out soon, so you might be able to wait a bit and pick it up on a bundle package - assuming Matrix sets one up.

Gary Grigsby's World at War or Panzer Corps might also be good starting titles, depending upon your interests.

HTH


i agree with above. particularly if you like small unit actions. manual is fairly short, and unit count is low.

Rick




Duck Doc -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 2:42:34 AM)

@Antmf_slith

Why not go to Wargame Design Studio and try their Squad Battles Grenada demo? Squad Battles does not have the mass of counters you are intimidated by. There are WW2 SB titles. Would be a good game engine for you to start. The other suggestions here, aside from V and V which is really a board game port, might put you off by their scale and complexity. Obtw, 55 is not old; I have you beat by 22 years.




ernieschwitz -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 2:54:40 AM)

I think that before you decide on a game, know that there are several subsections. Tactics, Operational and Strategic. Some games are in between, but, it is really a spectrum.

Clarifying that should give you a much narrower list to look at.




Kuokkanen -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 3:40:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

I would recommend you Warplan, very good WW2 strategy game. The first one in Europe (WPE) and the second one in Pacific (WPP).

Excuse me? I thought first game in that series is Warplan Orange in Pacific theater?




Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 12:26:03 PM)

Can anyone explain the difference between Tactics, Operational and Strategic war games? Sorry for noob question...




mainsworthy -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 12:48:46 PM)

tactical level as "the level of war at which battles and engagements are planned and executed to accomplish military objectives assigned to tactical units or task forces.

operational level means the day-to-day activities of putting emergency management into practice. Only the key details considered necessary for achieving operational effectiveness

The strategic level focuses on defining and supporting national policy and relates directly to the outcome of a war or other conflict as a whole. Usually, modern wars and conflicts are won or lost at this level rather than at the operational or tactical levels. but operational can be doing things that help multiple armies achieve there plans too.

tactical you can see the gunfire

operational you can hear the gunfire

strategic your imformed about gunfire

tactical is like an sas raid on an building

operational is getting the units to the building

if you want to play say as churchill or Hitler then you would be playing strategic.

the meanings are like close medium an far

tactical is like the movies that depict a squad .

operational is planning and moving your troops on trains to a battle and then having a general outcome of battle like you won or lost

strategic is like the warooms on movies that show a map on the table , and people pushing blocks around

strategy just means you have an overall plan. operational is making the plan happen by doing things that help the plan, like trasports, ammo, units to use in place,then tactical is whats used to do the plan , the units are in place and you have ammo so attack

you can easily figure out weather you doing a stategic, opperational or tactical by the rank of the force your ordering to do something. if your ordering army leaders thats strategic, if your ordering a part of an army your opperational. if your ordering the smallest parts of an army your doing tactical.

Thanks Antmf_slith its been a lot of fun answering this.




AndySfromVA -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 12:49:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Antmf_slith

Can anyone explain the difference between Tactics, Operational and Strategic war games? Sorry for noob question...

Tactical games focus on small units. Some tactical games are Steel Panthers, Battle Academy and Wargame Design Studio's Squad Battles. Strategic games deal with armies. Strategic Command World at War is a prime example. Operational games are somewhere in between, such as Panzer Corps, Operational Art of War, WDS Panzer Campaigns and many more.




Erik Rutins -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 5:31:06 PM)

I would also suggest Panzer Corps and Order of Battle as good beginner-friendly wargames on WW2.




ncc1701e -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/24/2022 7:23:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

I would recommend you Warplan, very good WW2 strategy game. The first one in Europe (WPE) and the second one in Pacific (WPP).

Excuse me? I thought first game in that series is Warplan Orange in Pacific theater?


Oh no, Warplan Orange not the same series than Warplan or Warplan Pacific.




Kuokkanen -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/25/2022 4:33:09 PM)

To further elaborate tactical-operational-strategic levels, some games have 2 or all 3 of them, where player gets to do military and/or nation building, assemble and move military forces, and command battles on tactical scale. Some of such games:
Total War series
Close Combat series
Lords of the Realm series
Age of Wonders series
Heroes of Might & Magic series
Knights of Honor
X-COM series & derivatives
XCOM series & derivatives




Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/25/2022 5:00:37 PM)

I think either Tactic or Operational level war games would be best for me to start with because the Strategic ones I think are a tad to broad for me right now...




Zovs -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/25/2022 6:45:02 PM)

If you have never played any board or computer wargames I think the two easiest started games would be Panzer General (the older first version) and Order of Battle. The next step up would be John Tillers older Campaign Series, and then maybe one of the Decisive Campaigns all WW2 games.

You can try some free tactical games like Steel Panthers here and elsewhere, plus there are a number of free demos out there, don’t want to break any rules here, but search : war games free demo and I am sure something will pop up.




Zovs -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/25/2022 6:47:32 PM)

Once you have tried a few then you’ll know if you like tactical, operational or strategic level war games. There is a difference, some folks incorrectly call all war game strategy games but that is not exactly true. I can expand on this if desired.




Zovs -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/25/2022 7:27:10 PM)

From my board war game days:

Tactical Level War games are primarily designed around small unit tactics. Mostly at the squad and up to battalion level, but some are single man games (a bit rarely in board war games, but common in FPS), but most war games are squad up to battalion level games at the tactical level. The idea is that the tactics fall on the battalion, company, platoon or squad leader and they are implementing a smaller part of one of the operations.

Map scale: 5-250 meters per hex (man to man 5-25 meters, squad 25-75 meters, company 75-250 and battalion 100-250 or up 500 meters)
Time scale: 30 seconds to 1 day per turn (usually for man to man you'd see 30 seconds to a few minutes, most squad level games are 1 minute to 5 minutes, most platoon level games are 30 to 60 minutes, most company level games are 1 hour to 8 hours, most battalion level games are 2 hours to a day per turn)
Unit/Counter scale: 1 man up to battalion per counter/unit (so 1 man, a squad (8-15 men) platoon (20-50 men), company (100-180 men) battalion 200 on up)

Operational Level War games are primarily designed the operational level of movement, combat, logistics and other operational aspects (too numerous to list). Generally Operational level war games are battalion up to division level. The general or most common are divisional level war games. The idea is that operational level war games are implementing the grand strategies set my High Command or Political leaders.

Map scale: 1 km to 50 km per hex (regiment/battalion level 1 km to 5 km, brigade/regimental 1-10 km, divisional/regimental/brigade level 15-30 km, divisional/army level 25-50 kms).
Time scale: 4 hours up to biweekly turns (regiment/battalion 4 to 24 hours, brigade/regimental 1 day to 1 week, divisional/army 1/2 week to 2 weeks)
Unit/Counter scale: battalion up to divisions per counter/unit (each counter could represent a battalion, regiment, brigade, division, corps, or armies, with multiple counters for each regiment, brigade or division and/or pure regiments/brigade/divisions)

Strategic Level War games are primarily designed for the strategic level of command, sometimes involving production, politics, where and how to employ those strategies.

Map scale: 20-100 km per hex
Time scale: 1 week to seasonal turns
Unit/Counter scale: Divisional up to Army Group level per counter/unit

These are generic concepts that have been around since 1958 when Avalon Hill first introduced the first board war game called Tactics II, and evolved when SPI came into being in the late 1960s while being led by John F. Dunnigan one of founding fathers and most prolific war game creator/inventor.





Antmf_slith -> RE: new To the genre and looking for some war gaming advice (1/25/2022 8:00:07 PM)

Yeah sounds like Operation first and foremost than tactical is more for me...




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