Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (Full Version)

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Erik Rutins -> Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 4:30:30 AM)

I've seen some folks concerned about font and UI scaling in DW2 and also some saying that it's the same as DWU. I want to reassure everyone that a lot of work went into making sure that the entire UI can scale and to make sure that by default the UI and text elements are larger and more legible than in DWU. I personally find no issue seeing or reading anything in DW2 as I play. You can also choose to adjust the UI scale in your game settings, to make everything larger or smaller as you wish.

For comparison, here's Distant Worlds 2 and Distant Worlds: Universe side by side:


[image]local://upfiles/9/22595A756DB64CBEA7883CCB6E84B532.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 4:34:04 AM)

Here's an example of Distant Worlds 2 with the UI and fonts scale increased one step. I've also chosen an alternate color scheme in the settings:



[image]local://upfiles/9/FA8580A3622642B89FA47D0353285F90.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 4:36:24 AM)

And here's the largest scaling option, with yet another preset color scheme (note, this one really is way bigger than I would want to play with on my 1920x1200, but for example purposes here it is):





[image]local://upfiles/9/6567502ED3C04253B85BB1766ECACBAE.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 4:40:02 AM)

Have a look back at the Distant Worlds: Universe screenshot in the first post and I think you'll see that we've done a lot to address the scaling and font size concerns from DW1.

I should also note that for those that prefer a larger UI but want more to fit on the lists, we also have a setting that allows a separate scaling setting for the lists vs the rest of the UI. For those with great eyesight, you can also scale the UI down. Here's an example of the standard setting with smaller list scaling:





[image]local://upfiles/9/C6E85092628547B490776F3E970D0C1A.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 4:40:42 AM)

I hope that helps address the concerns. Please share this wherever you think may be helpful, if you see people asking about or concerned about the UI/Font scaling in DW2.



zgrssd -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 5:20:55 AM)

quote:

I've seen some folks concerned about font and UI scaling in DW2 and also some saying that it's the same as DWU.

I like to say: "They had to recreate the game in a new engine, so they finally could add it."
And that is at best half-jokingly [:D]



Galaxy227 -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 5:50:49 AM)

If you remember, I made this post nearly a year ago on DW2's interface. Before I was hesitant to accept the appearance of DW2, but the more I fully embrace it for what it is, the more I appreciate the direction Code Force took. I really enjoy the art style, colors, font, and organization of the interface. It's incredibly well-thought out, especially for the size & scope of the Distant Worlds team. My comment serves as an apology of sorts, as I should've been less explosive nearly a year ago from today. I love the new interface. Words don't do justice when it comes to appreciating how large of a leap this is from whatever we had before.

I look forward to changing the UI colors to match my empire [8D]



Amalek28 -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 7:41:53 AM)

......



Slish -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 9:55:55 AM)

It certainly is a good improvement. :) But what most people are also concerned about: is the font itself.

I don't know exactly what it is, but I can understand them. (although I think I will be fine with the UI and slightly large scaling). I know this sounds vague...



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 10:25:37 AM)

I have watched most of the streams and the UI is really good and a huge improvement over Universe. I'm not a person that is bothered by clunky UI but this new one is really good.

Distant Worlds still is a spreadsheet game but being able to hide the spreadsheet in a smart way is good to get more people interested in a game of this huge scope. The complexity of the game are pretty high when you start digging under the hood, but you can play the game in a more casual setting now and I think that will be a huge plus for the future of this game, the more people that buy it the more future DLC and updates we are likely to get.

Can't say much other than that I'm impressed of all the effort you have done to make the game more accessible to a larger audience without dumbing the game down in any way.



Gertjan -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 11:16:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slish

It certainly is a good improvement. :) But what most people are also concerned about: is the font itself.

I don't know exactly what it is, but I can understand them. (although I think I will be fine with the UI and slightly large scaling). I know this sounds vague...


I agree with this, the interface/UI is indeed much improved, as are the scaling options. But the font itself is the same, right? Part of the problem is with the font. I saw someone on Reddit or Youtube explaining the issues quite well.



Jorgen_CAB -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 11:45:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slish

It certainly is a good improvement. :) But what most people are also concerned about: is the font itself.

I don't know exactly what it is, but I can understand them. (although I think I will be fine with the UI and slightly large scaling). I know this sounds vague...


I agree with this, the interface/UI is indeed much improved, as are the scaling options. But the font itself is the same, right? Part of the problem is with the font. I saw someone on Reddit or Youtube explaining the issues quite well.


It probably should not be too difficult for them to add a setting where you could change the font type of the UI if that is an issue people are having.



Mightymaster -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 12:09:54 PM)

eXplorminate has done a video about that (even in 1440p):
(edit: ok cant post links. Just look on their channel on youtube)

I think the interface is not just an improvement. Its great. In my opinion it is very clear and readable.



zgrssd -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 12:58:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mightymaster

eXplorminate has done a video about that (even in 1440p):
(edit: ok cant post links. Just look on their channel on youtube)

I think the interface is not just an improvement. Its great. In my opinion it is very clear and readable.

I think you need 5 more post before you can pust links and upload files. I can do it:

He showed and talked about scaling.
He also talked about UI themes, wich apparently include a "Color Blindness" theme.



KingHalford -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 1:20:01 PM)

Here's my little demonstration of the UI scaling.

UI Scaling in DW2



Erik Rutins -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 1:34:14 PM)

Back when we did DW1, I personally had much better eyesight. While I wear glasses, I had no need then for reading glasses or trouble reading small fonts. Things have changed since then! I have to say that I find no issue with DW2's font choice, size or scaling. I've been able to see everything clearly even on the default standard scaling size at 1920x1200. On a 4k screen, I tried the Large version as well and that was great. I'm sure some folks may need to use the larger scale settings, but it's already significantly larger than DW1's scaling by default.

I periodically go back to DW1 to check certain things and I have to say the fonts and scaling there no longer agree with me, but DW2 is a breeze. We're very open to making more and continuing improvements in this area the future, but I think for the vast majority of folks who load up DW2, they'll find things much, much improved.

Regards,

- Erik




Darkmater -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 2:03:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KingHalford

Here's my little demonstration of the UI scaling.




It would be great if you could do an overview of the options screen: covering graphics settings, resolution options, e.g. 21:9, etc.



Slish -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/27/2022 3:23:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Back when we did DW1, I personally had much better eyesight. While I wear glasses, I had no need then for reading glasses or trouble reading small fonts. Things have changed since then! I have to say that I find no issue with DW2's font choice, size or scaling. I've been able to see everything clearly even on the default standard scaling size at 1920x1200. On a 4k screen, I tried the Large version as well and that was great. I'm sure some folks may need to use the larger scale settings, but it's already significantly larger than DW1's scaling by default.

I periodically go back to DW1 to check certain things and I have to say the fonts and scaling there no longer agree with me, but DW2 is a breeze. We're very open to making more and continuing improvements in this area the future, but I think for the vast majority of folks who load up DW2, they'll find things much, much improved.

Regards,

- Erik





I have seen the videos about UI now. And yes it looks much better, much better than in the initial streams too (which probably just looked bad due to resolution mismatch/processing etc.).

I saw there are color schemes too, and some of them I liked much more than the standard one!
A suggestion: maybe make race-specific UI themes? I always liked that. Make it an option though of course, so if people don't like it they can just turn it off.



Nabobalis -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/29/2022 12:08:28 AM)

Thanks for showing us how the scaling works alongside the UI themes.

My personal issue is the font color (I am not a massive fan of the font (those r and y look odd to me, but that is seperate).

The font color on most of the panels looks too grey on black or other grey backgrounds. If you look at the planet summary from DW2 compared to the white font on the DW:U version.
Scaling does solve this to some degree but it doesn't fix the original issue for me.

For another example from a live stream:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/88kfd2J/Untitled.png[/img]

It is quite hard to read any of the text with the sun background with that font color under the ship summary.
The ship names in the list also have a low contrast but are better than the ship summary.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/29/2022 1:03:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nabobalis
The font color on most of the panels looks too grey on black or other grey backgrounds. If you look at the planet summary from DW2 compared to the white font on the DW:U version.


Your screenshot looks a bit more dark and gray than mine, so I would assume that's a function of the stream you got it from somehow. The screenshots above are accurate to the game. With all that said, we may add something to the settings before release to let people increase the text contrast more if they wish. That shouldn't be too hard.

It's also worth noting that part of how the UI works is that you can expand some panels of it with a mouseover for a quick look. When in that state, they are a bit more transparent. If you click to "lock" them in place to interact with them, they become brighter and more opaque.

Regards,

- Erik




Mightymaster -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/29/2022 8:14:15 AM)

I have to admit that in the different streams sometimes its hard to read but here in the screenshots shown by Erik I have no problem with the grey text. Should be even better when ingame.



Nabobalis -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (1/29/2022 4:54:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Your screenshot looks a bit more dark and gray than mine, so I would assume that's a function of the stream you got it from somehow. The screenshots above are accurate to the game. With all that said, we may add something to the settings before release to let people increase the text contrast more if they wish. That shouldn't be too hard.



Thank you for considering this! Maybe the ability to change the font color or at least mod it somehow?



bbenham -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (2/4/2022 9:18:56 PM)

ME LIKE.

Looks wonderful.



rxnnxs -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (2/22/2022 7:53:23 PM)

I have to agree the UI looks very good and is very good in adapting to the different size of the text and the room that is there and how it is filled out with the windows.
I have nothing to complain about!

But as a side note, I want to mention that it would be very good, if we could change the font just as we wish.
I know the problem in DW could not be solved as lets say in MOO3.
There it was possible to change the font and the scaling by giving the game other ttfs.
I worked on that fonts for a long time, and got some fonts I prefered.

Maybe you know what I am talking about.

In the fonts.txt one could change the ttf fonts: 
tt0047m_.ttf
isocpeur.ttf
cour.ttf
isocpeur.ttf
tt0009m.ttf

OS	Verdana
OS	Eurostile Bold Condensed
OP	Eurostile Bold Extended #2
OP	Eurostile Extended #2
OM	Eurostile Bold Extended 2
OM	Eurostile Extended 2
OS	Eurostile Condensed

So I used for instance the isocpeur.ttf and had a better looking font than the original.
Unfortunately, the UI itself was not always using the fonts as declared, so some titles were not used, others were, lets say in the help-overlay hardly readable.

But this is, what would be nice if used throughout the game:
for big title, medium title, small title, description, help text.. and so on. Also the colour.

We could choose on our own which font to use. With files as .ttf, .otf, woff or whatever, but please do not compile it somehow with some microsoft thingy that it can never be changed later..
I hope you know what I mean and that are my 2 cents.

Thanks for reading
fred

P.S.: Please do not forget the colorblind! (Maybe somewhere you mentioned already that you have an option to address this?)
And please do not use red text on blue background or vice versa.
P.P.S.: The uploaded picture shows the original on top, the changed fonts at the bottom.
You can see here very clearly, that size does not always matter. The smaller font (in this case isocpeur/courier) is better readable than the bold condensed with the even worse "always-capital-letter" font. This is not shown in thise screenshot. Saying it out of my memory. Somewhere is it always captial but a font was able to circumvent it (I think).

[image]local://upfiles/44845/15699138394A4088BC3939FB21DB6494.jpg[/image]



SirHoraceHarkness -> RE: Questions regarding Font and UI Scaling (2/22/2022 9:08:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I should also note that for those that prefer a larger UI but want more to fit on the lists, we also have a setting that allows a separate scaling setting for the lists vs the rest of the UI. For those with great eyesight, you can also scale the UI down.


Ah sweet! This is going to go very well with my 58" 4k screen. One of the issues I have with ui scaling is that its typically all or nothing and this little bit of customization will allow for much better access to info on a given data screen. This was a huge issue with DWU as sometimes it just couldn't fit all the info into a window and it was cut off.



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