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MechFO -> RE: Are VVS losses reasonable? (2/5/2022 11:23:23 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vvs007
the main problem is in the calculations that the Germans and Russians used completely different systems for accounting for "dead" aircraft.
The Germans, on the other hand, had a "damage-percentage system", only an aircraft was considered in combat losses if it was 100% destroyed. If an aircraft was found in the field by advancing german tanks, and the rear services sent it to the Reich, but the report shows 85% damage, then such an aircraft was not included in combat losses. At the factory, it could be melted down or restored.
an estimate of 60% is applied - which quite accurately reflects whether the aircraft will be restored or disassembled for spare parts. But as we remember, there are "no losses" in German documents :)
Writeoffs, and thus reported losses, at the unit level could happen down to damage % of maybe 20-30%, depending on circumstances. A damaged plane that they thought could be repaired and staid with the unit-> not a write off,
an undamaged plane that couldn't be moved with the unit-> write off
Relevant as that the plane was located with the unit and was moved with it.
Total loss numbers are roughly correct. What is unclear and subject to much interpretation is cause and the timing of the cause of loss.
First, what share of losses are combat losses? F.e. is a 20% combat damaged plane that was abandoned counted as a combat or non combat loss? Is a plane with a few non relevant bullet holes that has a landing accident a combat or non combat loss? etc.
There were no central guidlines on these matters so reporting varied by period and unit. Furthermore, the time of actual incident that caused the loss is not reported, only the write off date. A write off in August could be caused by an incident in June. This makes it hard to pin down exact losses by combat in a certain period.
This can lead to a unit that has less planes shot down but suffers more damaged planes, could report higher combat write offs than another unit that has more planes shot down but staid on it's base for a few weeks more.
Planes that were handed off to higher level repairshops are recorded as such, if those planes are lost at a later date then it won't show in the unit loss reports, as the planes have already been booked out, but will show up in higher level loss report. However, the numbers of aircraft going to higher level workshops is fairly small in all the reporting sheets I've looked at. The Luftwaffe had a very primitive repair system in the East.
quote:
ORIGINAL: vvs007
If an aircraft was found in the field by advancing german tanks, and the rear services sent it to the Reich, but the report shows 85% damage, then such an aircraft was not included in combat losses.
That is an outright fantasy.
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