Issues with units in regions taken by WA (Full Version)

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xhoel -> Issues with units in regions taken by WA (2/8/2022 6:14:43 PM)

I was curious to see what would happen to a unit that was located in a region taken by the WA so ran a test and think I may have found a bug.

I had the 117th Jager Division in a hex in Bavaria on T18. On T19 the WA have overrun Bavaria and taken the hex. The unit is no where to be seen.

If you search for them in the CR, you wont find them. But you also wont find them in the Units Destroyed list. However if you search them using the H key it will show that the unit is where it was on T18 and you can see their TOE and everything. Am guessing the unit has been trapped in limbo.

You can try this with the 1/Wiking Division too which I also moved for the test. Whats going on?

Saves are attached. Use T18 Set up to see where the units are. T19 Axis you can repeat the steps I mentioned.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Y6rNR7r.jpg[/img]



Joel Billings -> RE: Issues with units in regions taken by WA (2/8/2022 7:41:33 PM)

Yes, it appears the units are trapped in amber and will be out of the game. Is it documented anywhere what's supposed to happen? I seem to recall we worked in WitW to make sure that the advancing Soviets would not kill Allied units, but instead would displace them back into friendly Allied territory. I would expect the same to happen here in reverse, but don't know how German units are supposed to be treated.



loki100 -> RE: Issues with units in regions taken by WA (2/8/2022 7:47:19 PM)

as far as I can see, the manual only states that some districts won't go the Allies if they are already taken by the Soviets (13.1.5).

I vaguely recall in some early test games that the Soviets were being moved to the east of any Theatre that went under Allied control (this happened both in a campaign game and some early VtB tests)



xhoel -> RE: Issues with units in regions taken by WA (2/9/2022 8:37:00 AM)

@Joel: I recall from WitW that in these cases the unit would simply get displaced similar to how HQs are displaced. Doesnt seem to be the case in WitE 2 and IMO should be changed. Losing units because of these events is going to affect balance especially in the last few weeks of the war.

The Germans have the cards stacked against them, they dont need more of this.

@loki100: I checked the manual before posting the thread and doesnt seem to be mentioned.




Joel Billings -> RE: Issues with units in regions taken by WA (2/9/2022 5:10:09 PM)

Honestly there is good reason to think in this case the units would surrender. In fact many Axis units were intentionally moving west to surrender to the Allies. If in an area where the Allies take control, many would have been sucked into combat there and/or happily surrendered as opposed to moving east. Clearly we did not want Soviet and Allied units taking each other off the table, but in this case I see as much or more reason to leave it as is. The only counter I see is that we don't give you good info on what will flip and when, but even that could be argued is realistic. The German high command may have placed a unit somewhere only to find out that events and actions by the local commander overtook them. I don't discount the fact that it's not fun to lose one of your units from an unexpected cause, but changing this is non-trivial.



xhoel -> RE: Issues with units in regions taken by WA (2/9/2022 6:24:43 PM)

I am not arguing that if a German formation was in the path of the WA they wouldnt surrender, or they would move East to fight the Soviets.

The issue as you stated has to to do with the fact that the TBs and the WA advance is abstracted. For example, when the WA take a region, the entire thing flips. Meanwhile, if this was a normal game where you can see the front moving, you would at least be able to react to that.

But even with that being said I am fine with units surrendering in this case. You just need to hook it up so that the player gets the message that this has happened. As I stated in the first post, nothing comes up, the unit is just stuck in limbo which is confusing.



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