Organizing the Luftwaffe (Full Version)

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PeteJC -> Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 1:39:34 PM)

I tried a couple of searches and hunted around a bit, but I have not seen anything on how folks organize their air forces. Apologies if I missed something and this is a redundant post. In particular, the Luftwaffe in the Grand Campaign game. I was hoping to get some thoughts/advice on how best to structure things. For example, do people create groups with a certain kind of plane, move some of teh subunits into other AOGs, change leaders, move HQs to certain areas etc. or is the consensus that the current structure/organization is basically fine as is.



Stamb -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 1:49:27 PM)

I tend to organize it in such a way that same bombers and especially recon planes are located in same group. So they have similar range and more importantly same planes with same engines count. As it is really painful to transfer AOGs with a mix of 1 engine, 2 engine planes. Like it is in the start with a recon groups. It takes a lot of time, but it is worth it.

I do not change luftflotte leaders, but I move them closer to a front. Maybe to a line of Pskov/Kiev/Dnepropetrovsk line. There is something in a manual about it. I think they should be within 90 hexes from an air battle to not suffer any penalties.

Also there is a nice trick that helps Axis. You can move all ju52 transport planes from other TBs as they do not add any value. And you can use them on map to compensate freight problems.
You can expand airbases near Kiev to hold some of that planes there. Also put Kiev depot at priority 4 to accumulate some freight for later distribution. It really saved my ass in first winter in multiplayer game!

1 transport AOG can have up to 5 groups. 1 group is 40 planes max (if I am not mistaken). So it is 200 transport planes.
If I am correct then one ju 52 plane drops 2 tons of freight to an airbase. 200 planes -> 400 tons per 1 mission.
And you can also use transport planes from other AOGs.
As a result I was able to deliver something like 3k tons via an air in my MP to a sector where supply is really bad.



marion61 -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 2:01:06 PM)

Just to add one thing. Use your lower level air HQ's to separate planes. I put Tac bombers and a AOG of fighters in a lower level hq, and take another AOG of fighters (if you have them) and your level bombers in another HQ or they can just stay with the main hq. The tac and level bombers use different altitudes to attack and different targets usually. This way I know where they are and don't have to hunt thru all the AOG's to find what I want.




PeteJC -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 2:23:56 PM)

great advice Stamb (as usual) but I think I am going to try to be "good" and leave those transports in the other TBs since there is no penalty for taking them out. I say that now, but we will see how I feel come October rains [;)].

I was thinking of trying to get like planes that have the same ranges into specific subunits as best I can. I don't really like seeing various ring ranges from a subunit if it can be avoided and Marion61 makes a god point on the use of the differing bombers as well.

I am assuming my planes will not suffer any kind of penalty if I re arrange them many of them before the first turn air phase resolution on the GC.



Stamb -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 2:36:58 PM)

I don't think there are any penalties for reassigning planes to a different group. Also it is nice that you can reassign planes multiple times per 1 turn, unlike in ground phase where units can be reassigned only once (why they did so? If you missed and assigned unit to a XXVIII instead of XXVII you are unable to correct it until next turn)

Also I retrain all fighter bombers to fighters if they are trained as bombers. With latest changes to a GS maybe this is not a good idea, but I would still do it to kill as much Soviets as possible during campaign.



Stamb -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 2:48:41 PM)

Also I use trained pilots only for a fighters. But you have to be careful as there might be a problem when this fighter group goes to TBs. They will stuck using trained pilots only as you can not change setting when unit is in a TBs.
So change to normal before group withdrawal.



Stamb -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 2:50:58 PM)

Ah and probably the most important one. Select day only for your missions. As Soviet player/AI can trick you to fight in a night with a huge losses from your side. While they can sustain this losses - you can not :)



AlbertN -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 3:38:16 PM)

I believe there are no grand guides because the Luftwaffe is roughly not that useful in the bomber wing component, certainly not til the latest beta and now marginally due to the ground support changes.

In general there are 2 mandatory steps: trained pilots only for fighters, and day only missions pretty much.

There is little to organize otherwise as it goes on need and in general the VVS can get the Luftwaffe under once players start to get the grip of a few things. (I am not sure how many realize that the VVS has excellent air leaders AND that their Air HQ answer to Fronts, which can go assault mode AND I suspect it can give benefits to morale / initiative / whatnot rolls to air stuff too, while the Luftwaffe answers to the OKL).
I am testing the 'Air Assault HQ' mode as I just realized it 1-2 turns ago, in my Soviet game.



Stamb -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 3:53:49 PM)

no AAR from the Soviet side?



AlbertN -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/17/2022 4:13:29 PM)

AARs can be time consuming and anyhow it's a something more akin to a test match. I am a total Soviet newb and the Axis player is a Soviet player that changed flag!
And I stalled my new Axis games as soon as on T1 the VVS blasted away a bazillion of German guns across the board.



DarkHorse2 -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/18/2022 1:51:46 AM)

Note, following may only be applicable if 'Enhanced Player TB Control' is enabled.
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This is something nobody has mentioned, but you can change all the FB's in all the Theater Boxes to flying 'fighter' missions - even those trained as bombers.

This helps a bit in meeting the 'AIR DAY' garrison requirements. (Germany has ample TB bombers, but hurting on fighters)

Also, when starting off in 1941GC, you have a lot of Naval Air in the Balkans going to waste. Need to xfer them to Italy / North Africa AND 1 or 2 Naval Air from WE to Norway.

And then check your WE vs Finland bomber garrision requirements. IIRC, you can xfer 1 or 2 bombers from WE to Finland on turn 1. (To help in Finland's GROUND garrison requirements)



ShaggyHiK -> RE: Organizing the Luftwaffe (2/18/2022 9:05:36 AM)

The organization of aviation, both German and Soviet, should meet your needs on the ground, but taking into account enemy opposition in the air.

This is a rather complex process that does not have a single pattern of behavior. There are no rules here like: "Do X and Y and there will be a profit."



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