AAR-Rommel to the Rescue (Full Version)

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Alexandra -> AAR-Rommel to the Rescue (8/21/2001 8:30:00 PM)

Here's the start of my latest Campaign AAR: Campaign AAR- Rommel to the Rescue, Easy. Notes: This campaign is by Wild Bill and is based on the battles around Arras, France, in May 1940. Core: 1 HQ, 1 Rifle Company (3 riles platoons, 1 AT platoon with ATRs), 1 75mm Field Gun Section Mission: I have to establish blocking positions, as the English are supposed to be attacking towards the flank of 7th Panzer Division. We have to slow, or stop, the enemy advance. Support Forces: Enginer platoon, 2 gun teams for my FGs, 1 ATR platoom, 1 37mm ATG platoon (wagon drawn) Aux Forces: Various trucks, 4 half tracks, 2 rifle platoon, 2 SdKfz-7, 4 Bty 105 and 1 Bty 150mm OBA, 4 37mm ATGs, 4 75mm FGs, 2 sIG 33's, 2 Sdkfz 222 The plan: Most of my forces are inbound, so the plan is to get them forward, and deployed, as rapidly as possible. Weather: Clear
Vis: 1100 yards. Turn One: Our forces advance. *** Enemy armor spotted. 1 Matilda knocked out by 88 fire. Turn Two: We keep moving and deploying. *** Another 'tilda dies. Turn Three: Forward movement and deployment continues. We damage a Marm-Herr and kill a 'tilda. *** The enemy pushes forward, but loses three more 'tilda's. Turn Four: We kill three Marm-Herr's and 2 'tilda's.*** The enemy advances, losing two more Marm-Herr's. Turn Five: We kill one 'tilda, and knock out the suspension of a second one. *** We kill another 'tilda, and take our first casualties. Turn Six: We kill another 'tilda. *** The enemy keeps advancing, losing yet another 'tilda. Turn Seven: Our defense stays solid as we kill 2 more Marm Herr's and 2 more 'tilda's. *** We knock out another 'tilda as they advance, but we lose a PSW 222. Turn Eight: We kill one 'tilda and immobilzie another. *** We kill a truck as they advance. They are attacking in a large, semi-circular arc, apparently trying to find a way to flank the defense, or simply to put so much pressure on it that it collapses on it's own. Turn Nine: We knock out 2 more 'tilda's, as well as a truck and two motorcycle recon squads. *** We lose a 222 but kill another advancing 'tilda. Turn Ten: 3 kill 3 more 'tilda's and destroy 2 more motorcycle recon squads. *** The enemy loses another truck, then withdraws from the field. Results: German DV 5416 ro 287. German Losses: 33 men, 2 AFVs. British Losses: 177 men, 1 arty, 4 soft vehicles, 30 AFV.
Alex



Larry Holt -> (8/21/2001 9:25:00 PM)

Good AAR.
Can anyone provide an AAR of the hard version? I tried it and ran into a problem (surprise, surprise). Specifically, only the 88s can take out the Matildas. There are two 88s (IIRC) with 3 shots per turn but when they get shot at and surpressed, this goes to two shots each for a total of four shots to kill Matildas per turn. Since the % to hit starts low, realistically you can kill a Matilda every other turn. [even if I got the # of 88s wrong I found that I could only kill one Matilda every other turn] This allows the Brits to advance at a rate faster than the Germans can kill them and the Germans get overrun. A fighting withdrawal does not change things, it just reduces the number of 88 shots available.



Alexandra -> (8/21/2001 9:44:00 PM)

Larry, I knocked out 'tilda's with more than 88s. I got one with infantry - immob'ed it, and then killed the crew when they popped out. I also got an immob, and a very lucks kill, with flank shots from 37's, and scared one away with 20mm fire from a scout car, though the car was killed later. 88s are, though, the best way to kill them. Alex



lnp4668 -> (8/21/2001 10:03:00 PM)

I tried the hard version, and got wipe the first time. 2nd time around, I invest in some 88 and managed a DV. Those Maltidas keeps on coming and coming.



Arralen -> (8/21/2001 10:16:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:
Here's the start of my latest Campaign AAR: Core: 1 HQ, 1 Rifle Company (3 riles platoons, 1 AT platoon with ATRs), 1 75mm Field Gun Section Support Forces: Enginer platoon, 2 gun teams for my FGs, 1 ATR platoom, 1 37mm ATG platoon (wagon drawn) Aux Forces: Various trucks, 4 half tracks, 2 rifle platoon, 2 SdKfz-7, 4 Bty 105 and 1 Bty 150mm OBA, 4 37mm ATGs, 4 75mm FGs, 2 sIG 33's, 2 Sdkfz 222
Turn One: Our forces advance. *** Enemy armor spotted. 1 Matilda knocked out by 88 fire.
From where did you get this 8.8 ??? A.



Charles2222 -> (8/21/2001 10:40:00 PM)

"IF" you have more AT type guns than the enemy, be that on tanks, foot, or armored cars, you can give superior tanks a run for their money. In these circumstances the suppression game is one of the few ways to counter them in hoping to knock a few into retreat. As well, if you can shoot and scoot with the armored cars, you place enough fire on the Mattys that sooner or later you will rupture a few treads. Once that occurs try to keep 'light' AT fire on that unit to try to get them to abandon, while you switch you 88's to deal primarily with Matildas firing back or Matildas that have advanced the most (though there is something to be said with letting a certain amount get through, so that infantry can help with assaults). I think overall, I would have the 88s concentrate on a Matilda apiece, while I would have all other ATGs concentrate on 2 or 3 Mattys to route or disable them. Also, don't forget that not only are the treads susceptible to being ruptured, but the main guns themselves can be destroyed, and in a game where every Matty being disabled is of the utmost importance, it's also very necessary to pinpoint just which Matty is no longer a threat, should you be fortunate enough to knock out the gun. Put enough rounds on a unit and something bad is liable to happen to it sooner or later.



Resisti -> (8/21/2001 11:04:00 PM)

Larry, I tried the hard version,too.
But It is long ago and I cant remember the final score; I remember it has been a very hard fight, at least till
the moment tanks came.....
On the other hand, having read somewhere abt the use Rommel made (for the first time, I think) at Arras of the 88 in AT role and that has been they key to survive, I bought a couple of them in my core force.
I can tell you they worked well !
A pity I had only two in my fisrt battle, but I learned the lesson and bought more (not so much cause I use rarity feature) later and things went even better.
IMHO, it is really a must that all the 88's you deploy have their own prime mover as near as possible in order to move them almost each turn after they fired; otherwise they become meat for enemy arty...
In addition you should TRY to keep them on railroad hexes cause there's also rocks in it and this provides a very good cover for them (and not only for them,indeed...).



Jasper -> (8/21/2001 11:48:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Arralen:
From where did you get this 8.8 ??? A.
Maybe he had superb engineer, they rebore the 75mm to 88 mm in their preparation time....



Jasper -> (8/21/2001 11:57:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
Good AAR.
Can anyone provide an AAR of the hard version? I tried it and ran into a problem (surprise, surprise). Specifically, only the 88s can take out the Matildas. There are two 88s (IIRC) with 3 shots per turn but when they get shot at and surpressed, this goes to two shots each for a total of four shots to kill Matildas per turn. Since the % to hit starts low, realistically you can kill a Matilda every other turn. [even if I got the # of 88s wrong I found that I could only kill one Matilda every other turn] This allows the Brits to advance at a rate faster than the Germans can kill them and the Germans get overrun. A fighting withdrawal does not change things, it just reduces the number of 88 shots available.
88 mm is still a killer for tanks right up to the end of the war. IS 2 is still a piece meal for the 88 provided it is in a good firing position and also, the unit u are firing at is being suppressed. Combined arm is the key to success. Using use mortar on the area before u start ur killing. Also where is the ur 88 forward support, u need good spotter infront to spot those unit. Unit like the Spec Ops is good in spotting, place them in the front and set it fire range to 1. Dont move. Then when ur 88mm fire, u would not get surprise return fire which will suppress it and reduce it accuracy. When handling the British during the early war, the 2 pdr (they only have AP no HE) are of no danger to u but watch out the MG range and infantry support espically the MG team. Do not place 88 in open when the battle field visibility drops....A good deployment almost ensure a good victory.



lnp4668 -> (8/22/2001 12:07:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
Good AAR.
Can anyone provide an AAR of the hard version? I tried it and ran into a problem (surprise, surprise). Specifically, only the 88s can take out the Matildas. There are two 88s (IIRC) with 3 shots per turn but when they get shot at and surpressed, this goes to two shots each for a total of four shots to kill Matildas per turn. Since the % to hit starts low, realistically you can kill a Matilda every other turn. [even if I got the # of 88s wrong I found that I could only kill one Matilda every other turn] This allows the Brits to advance at a rate faster than the Germans can kill them and the Germans get overrun. A fighting withdrawal does not change things, it just reduces the number of 88 shots available.
I use MG to button up the Maltilda before I use the 88. I then reset the range for the 88 to real close so it won't waste shot on infantry during opportunity fire. Finally, if the enemy start shooting at the 88, I pop smoke in front of it, then moves it out of the way to another location.



FrankyVas -> (8/22/2001 12:16:00 AM)

I played the hard version w/o 88s of my own. I bought 1 Infantry company, 1 Atg platoon and 1 AT37mm platoon. The 37's can kill the matildas at close range. Stick them in a forest hex and don't fire till the Matildas are about 5 hexes away. At that range you can't miss and if they don't die, something will break in them. Scouts with AT mines are useful too. Infantry is only good to rout the things as they don't have any AT weapon. I surrounded 2 matildas with 4 infantry squads and I didn't kill either, they both bailed after 2 turns of pounding. Stick to the woods and protect your 88s. Frank V.



Larry Holt -> (8/22/2001 12:35:00 AM)

Many good tactics here. I prefer to focus on tactics rather than buying lots of big hardware (that's why I don't get extra 88s as reinforcements). I should have mentioned that I played this in an earlier version of the game. Back then the recon units didn't have AT mines and all infantry was easier to spot and supress. I think that I need to repay this with the ver 7 stuff.



Alexandra -> (8/22/2001 2:17:00 AM)

My 88s were aux forces, forgot to mention them. I didn't buy as as core forces because at this point in the war they were Divisional AA units, not assigned to lower HQs, hence the infantry company's parent battalion wouldn't have had any. I was, in fact, planing to but core 37mm ATGs, but rarity got me there, so I got the 75mm Field Guns instead. Alex



Jasper -> (8/22/2001 11:32:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by lnp4668:
I use MG to button up the Maltilda before I use the 88. I then reset the range for the 88 to real close so it won't waste shot on infantry during opportunity fire. Finally, if the enemy start shooting at the 88, I pop smoke in front of it, then moves it out of the way to another location.

As I have said so....he supressed the Maltida....When a tank button up, it visible or sighting capability drops to half - if I dont remember wrongly....



Jasper -> (8/22/2001 11:35:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:
My 88s were aux forces, forgot to mention them. I didn't buy as as core forces because at this point in the war they were Divisional AA units, not assigned to lower HQs, hence the infantry company's parent battalion wouldn't have had any. I was, in fact, planing to but core 37mm ATGs, but rarity got me there, so I got the 75mm Field Guns instead. Alex
Hey, dont take my word seriously, I knew that u forgot to mention your aux units. Just joking about the superb engineer with rebore your 75 to 88. I always love to read your battle report....



Wild Bill -> (8/23/2001 1:56:00 AM)

Take it from me and from history, you need 88s. While other units can kill Matildas, an 88 is the ticket. And don't stay in one place too long. That can be fatal! Very nicely done Alexandra. I appreciate the most interesting discussion on tactics for this little campaign. Wild Bill



Jasper -> (8/23/2001 11:59:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
Take it from me and from history, you need 88s. While other units can kill Matildas, an 88 is the ticket. And don't stay in one place too long. That can be fatal! Very nicely done Alexandra. I appreciate the most interesting discussion on tactics for this little campaign. Wild Bill

I agree with u, whenever a 88 fire on me and I spotted it, my next reaction was smoke the whole place like hell and call in the artillery....88 or not it is not protected from the top......



Alexandra -> (8/24/2001 8:16:00 PM)

Here's the next chapter: Between scen's: Our 75mm Field Guns have been sent back to division, and replaced by a pair of Stug B's. In addition, the infantry platoon's 50mm morars have been sent back to Battalion's Weapon Company, and, in thier place, each infantry platoon will have an attached engineer squad. Mission: General Rommel has ordered the TF to attack the British, in an attempt to forestall any more enemy attacks on us. Support Forces: 1 FO, 2 105mm batteries Aux Forces: 1 MG nest, 1 reinforced SS rifle company, a scout section (PSWs), ad hoc arty section (1 81mm mortar, 150mm sIG, 37mm ATG) The plan: We need to take a road junction and a hill, that are to the east of our own starts lines and to the west of the French town of Wailiy. The hill is in enemy hands. I plan on using the SS to do most of the bloody work, backing them up as need by with my own company. Weather: Clear
Vis: 1000 yards. Pregame: We hit the hill itself with 105s, and the woods to it's front with 81mm mortar fire. Turn One: The scouts take the intersection with an SS platoon moving up to support them. The other two SS platoon move towards the hill. We keep up the arty fire on the hill. Turn Two: SS elements start to reach the lower slopes of the hill as we keep up the arty fire. Turn Three: We push up, onto the hill. Arty's halted, and we displace the 81mm mortar's. *** The SS take fire on the hill. Scouts spot enemy halftracks moving in. Turn Four: The fighting on the hill turns bloody with the enemy losing a squad and the SS losing two. A stug loses a track crossing a rail line, and it's crew starts to try and fix the problem. The enemy advance that the scouts have spotted is now known to be 4 Bren Carriers and 2 'tilda's. *** The lead Bren goes down to fire from the scouts. Turn Five: Seems we've run right into an enemy attack. There are at least six enemy tanks closing in. The SS take the crest of the hill, while losing a MG team. *** The enemy surges ahead, with large numbers of armored vehicles. Turn Six: The SS lose another squad on the hill. To the south we kill a Bren Carrier. *** The enemy surges back onto the hill. However they lose a truck, and have a Marm-Herr, and a 'tilda immobilizied. Turn Seven: We kill a Marm-Herr, and lose an SS sIG. Turn Eight: We immobilize another 'tilda, but there's at least 2 companies of them. I doubt that we'll be able to hold much longer, and I order my company to freeze, in case we must withdraw. *** The SS loese another squad - half the SS on the hill are down. We kill an ATR team. We also lose a PSW. Turn Nine: The SS kill a 'tilda on the hill. *** Only 8 SS men are still up on the hill. To the south, we lose a MG team, but kill a 'tilda. The defense is rapidly collpasing under the weight of British armor. Turn Ten: General Rommel leaves the field. We immob. a 'tilada and lose the other PSW. *** We kill a sapper team, but 3 more SS squads, including the 2 left on the hill, are overrun. Turn Eleven: We kill the crew of an immob 'tilda, but our mobile stug is destroyed. *** The enemy takes the intersection, though we kill a scout patrol. Turn Twelve: We lose another SS squad. *** Another SS squad falls. I have 10 SS men, and an SS ATR team left of the company of them. Turn Fourteen: We immob another 'tilda. *** They overrun our hill. Turn Fifteen: We again immob a 'tilda. *** The next to last SS squad is overrun, as is the 37mm ATG and a 50mm mortar team. We also have lost my other Stug, and, for the moment, none of my other guns are manned. However, we kill a Marm-Herr, and immob another 'tilda. Turn Sixteen: We immob another 'tilda, and I think that the British have accidently killed the crew of one of the earlier immobilized ones. Turn Seventeen: My Infantry company command squad, and all of first platoon, except for one squad, clears the battlefield. In addition, one squad of 2nd Platoon also withdraws. Turn Eighteen: Two more of 2nd Platoon's squads withdraw. Turn Nineteen: All remaining elements of the company withdraw. Results: 4118 to 837 UK/German Marginal Defeat. Losses: 186 men, 4 Arty, 5 AFV (Germany). The 5 AFV is curious, as I only had 4 on the field Unless the Bunker counts as an AFV?? 72 men, 3 APC, 4 AFV (UK). Overall I got whomped Though, I did take out 4 tilda's, when by biggest gun with any real AT capaibility was the short 75 on the Stug's. With this defeat, this short campaign ends for me



john g -> (8/24/2001 8:42:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:
Here's the next chapter: With this defeat, this short campaign ends for me
When I played my core was composed of extra 88's so I waited for the expected british counter, wasn't disappointed when the 88's chewed them to bits. Then and only then did the SS move to take the vic hexes on the hill. I knew my guns had to kill off the armor before the infantry could move forward. It's too bad you didn't make it to the next battle, I got decisives on the first two, but got my clock cleaned in the third battle when the French horde shows up and rolls over everyone.
thanks, John. thanks, John.



lnp4668 -> (8/24/2001 9:37:00 PM)

I thinks Alexandra's attempt to stay in historical context really affect her capability. In this battle, I have a platoon of 88's so I was able to win. On the 3rd battle, I also got a DV, but it was a close one with all those french tanks.



Alexandra -> (8/24/2001 10:17:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by lnp4668:
I thinks Alexandra's attempt to stay in historical context really affect her capability. In this battle, I have a platoon of 88's so I was able to win. On the 3rd battle, I also got a DV, but it was a close one with all those french tanks.
You may be right. But, IMO, if you don't play historical, as much as you can, you don't learn as much And, you don't see what your historical counterpart had to do, in order to win. I probably should have bought an 88 section, with support points, representing part of Divisional AA . But an Inf Co with 88's integral to it, in 1940's, not something I'd simulate I've always felt too many German players rely too much on the 88, especially in the Early War when it wasn't that common on the field. Now, that's not meant as a criticism, just an observation. I like taking the road less travelled, and working for the wins Alex



lnp4668 -> (8/25/2001 12:55:00 AM)

I agree with your assessments.



McGib -> (8/25/2001 10:18:00 AM)

I'm playing the first battle and I've noticed that two of the half-tracks (n0 and n1) I think are armed with a rifle and a hand gun each. Is this on purpose? The other two have a pair of mg's.



john g -> (8/27/2001 3:17:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by McGib:
I'm playing the first battle and I've noticed that two of the half-tracks (n0 and n1) I think are armed with a rifle and a hand gun each. Is this on purpose? The other two have a pair of mg's.
Wild Bill created the campaign, so I am sure it was done for a reason, probobly the half tracks are standing in for some other vehicle with similar characteristics but no mg's. It's not like those half tracks would really change the balance, there aren't enough soft targets for them.
thanks, John.



Demento -> (8/29/2001 2:49:00 AM)

The second battle was quite frustrating. I lost the hill about two turns before the end of the scenario. (Hint: PzIV on the hill helps *immensly*) All those 37mm rounds bouncing off the Matildas and they just kept coming. I was firing HE at the end of it all, nothing else left. Still they kept coming. There were something like 20 dead Brit vehicles in the field, but they wouldn't stop. And I *had* a single 88!! Sucker ran out of ammo.



Wild Bill -> (8/29/2001 4:48:00 AM)

Er...mein Kapitan...we have no more ammunition! May we now leave here? Dontcha hate it when that happens. You have carefully preserved the big spider gun and then "no bullets.!" Argh. Yes, the halftracks have small arms which really belong to the crew. No MG. They are very unhappy about that Wild Bill



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